Roland cloud and rainlink

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:15 am

Is this the real innovation from this years NAMM, Roland cloud and rainlink, a new open midi like standard by Roland with 24 bit resolution?

Video in the link : http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/47/ro ... d-rainlink

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:23 pm

Bachus wrote:Is this the real innovation from this years NAMM, Roland cloud and rainlink, a new open midi like standard by Roland with 24 bit resolution?

Video in the link : http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/47/ro ... d-rainlink

Like the concepts. FYI, lots of " we are working on it "

Cloud services have been around for a decade so it was inevitable that an MI co would leverage that for sound libs. A new midi standard, if it holds, is most welcome.

fcoulter · Post by **fcoulter** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:45 pm

Bachus wrote:Is this the real innovation from this years NAMM, Roland cloud and rainlink, a new open midi like standard by Roland with 24 bit resolution?

Video in the link : http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/47/ro ... d-rainlink

The new MIDI standard is only useful if it's supported by other manufacturers. If not...

The cloud based functioning is fine for studios with good internet, not so good for gigging musicians.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:43 pm

fcoulter wrote:
Bachus wrote:Is this the real innovation from this years NAMM, Roland cloud and rainlink, a new open midi like standard by Roland with 24 bit resolution?

Video in the link : http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/47/ro ... d-rainlink
The new MIDI standard is only useful if it's supported by other manufacturers. If not...

The cloud based functioning is fine for studios with good internet, not so good for gigging musicians.

Well... i toight about that ... but since we all connect our keys directly to a computer... i think its more important that daws and such addapt the standard then other keyboard companies...

I think the standard rocks tough, it supports both HD realtime data as well as low latency audio

fcoulter · Post by **fcoulter** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:04 pm

Bachus wrote:
fcoulter wrote:
Bachus wrote:Is this the real innovation from this years NAMM, Roland cloud and rainlink, a new open midi like standard by Roland with 24 bit resolution?

Video in the link : http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/47/ro ... d-rainlink
The new MIDI standard is only useful if it's supported by other manufacturers. If not...
Well... i toight about that ... but since we all connect our keys directly to a computer... i think its more important that daws and such addapt the standard then other keyboard companies...

I think the standard rocks tough, it supports both HD realtime data as well as low latency audio

We don't all connect our keys directly to a computer. I avoid bringing my computer on the road, and the bands I've seen with keyboards generally also don't bring their computers on the road.

As for connecting directly to the computer, then the computer will also need to support the new Roland super MIDI standard. Roland will need to talk Apple and Microsoft to add utilities to the Operating System, or Roland will need to create their own interface devices and drivers. And even then, the new standard will only be useful for Roland keyboards, not Korg, Yamaha, etc.

Finally, lag time between the keyboard press and the sound coming out of the computer is the result of every step in the process. The MIDI lag is hardly the biggest drag on performance. Even if you speed up that part of the communication, the other more laggy steps will still slow you down.

(My software tells me that laggy isn't spelled correctly. Maybe laggy isn't even a word. BUT IT SHOULD BE!)

voip · Post by **voip** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:18 pm

For an "open standard" it is remarkably difficult to find any further information on the rainlink protocol or specification; nothing, not even on the Roland website.

In any case, MIDI "words" can be combined to send 14-bit data.

.

Reuben · Post by **Reuben** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:38 pm

24 bit Midi is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
The day someone samples a piano at 128 velocity levels is the day we might need to move on. For now 60,000,000 steps of variation is plainly ridiculous.

(Why would you ever need more than 16 colours on a computer screen anyway?)

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:12 pm

Reuben wrote:24 bit Midi is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Well said!

Reuben wrote:The day someone samples a piano at 128 velocity levels is the day we might need to move on. For now 60,000,000 steps of variation is plainly ridiculous.

VSL did a piano at 100 velocities or so. Also, Pianoteq, being fully modelled supports completely smooth velocity levels, in two flavors: regular 127 levels (remember, one level, zero, is actually "note off"!), and HD-MIDI 16383 levels (supported by some digital pianos out there like Casio PX5-S and I think Kawai VPC1, as well).

tim.condon · Post by **tim.condon** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:29 am

Reuben wrote: 24 bit Midi is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
The day someone samples a piano at 128 velocity levels is the day we might need to move on. For now 60,000,000 steps of variation is plainly ridiculous.

Surely all keyboards lerp between samples using the full (7 bits) precision? Assuming so, there are aliasing and expressiveness benefits for higher precision since you'd get better interpolation - maybe not 2^24, but certainly from say 2^16?

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:42 am

I can't find any decent information about Rainlink, except that it's "better than MIDI".

The great thing about MIDI is it's ubiquitous, so any replacement technology will need to be similarly ubiquitous, and work over as many different transport mediums, as MIDI for it to be "better", in my opinion.

MIDI already supports higher resolution controllers through NRPNs and RPNs. Higher resolution velocity expression is a solution to a problem I don't know exists.

What I really would like to see is a standard with better state management. For example, being able to start a sequence and have a hardware module in the exact right state at the start. This is something that's presently very cumbersome with MIDI, especially with Continuous Controllers.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:09 pm

Roland cloud seems to even support virtuall ACB instruments and a sample based D50 engine..

Check out 2 more video's here

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/47/ro ... rollTo=117

fcoulter · Post by **fcoulter** » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:52 pm

tim.condon wrote:
Reuben wrote: 24 bit Midi is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
The day someone samples a piano at 128 velocity levels is the day we might need to move on. For now 60,000,000 steps of variation is plainly ridiculous.
Surely all keyboards lerp between samples using the full (7 bits) precision? Assuming so, there are aliasing and expressiveness benefits for higher precision since you'd get better interpolation - maybe not 2^24, but certainly from say 2^16?

MIDI isn't an audio format, so aliasing isn't an issue.

eli125 · Post by **eli125** » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:55 pm

wow wow this is really something but what happens if no web access or cyber attack ?

fcoulter · Post by **fcoulter** » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:34 pm

eli125 wrote:wow wow this is really something but what happens if no web access or cyber attack ?

I store almost everything in the cloud. However, the stuff I'm actively working on is synced between the cloud and my hard drive. No internet? I've still got it readily available.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:52 am

eli125 wrote:wow wow this is really something but what happens if no web access or cyber attack ?

You still have HD versions of your samples available locally.. only when recording you will use the cloud... you can not use sounds in the cloud real time because of latency

So when playing these sounds from your keyboard... the 8 terabyte piano is just a 2 or 3 GB piano, but its locally stored on your PC or MAC

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