Recommended Audio Cables?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Yeah don't do that haha.
Apparently the 44VSL has those TRS connections, the 22VSL doesn't.

Most likely your sound will be fine in any case unless you were planning to produce commercial grade CDs.

LZ · Post by LZ » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:06 pm

Note that balanced cables only give you a benefit if BOTH the input and output (devices at both ends) are balanced.

Cliff notes version of balanced: you have +, -, and ground, instead of just + and ground. The '-' is the inverted version of what's on the '+'. So on the input side, it takes the '+' minus the '-'. If you get noise induced on the cable from interference, it gets induced on both wires the same. So on the receiving end, it gets cancelled out, while the actual signal is added.

IF you needed a DI, I wouldn't go with a cheap one. Cheap DI's can result in signal loss, reduced frequency response, and distortion. OTOH, you don't need to get the ridiculously expensive ones either. The Radials are good for the money IMHO, but aren't exactly cheap. Other OK brands are ProCo, Whirlwind. Countryman is good, but probably more expensive than Radial.

I am also using the M-Audio fast track pro with good results, though I DID get a whine trying to use the headphone out. Balanced cables from main outs into inputs 1/2 gave good results.

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:19 pm

I think I will try the unbalanced way first and just go with TS out into the interface....

The outputs of the interface are going into my Yamaha RX-V371 receiver which only has either HDMI, SPDIF/TOSlink and coaxial in, or RCA in. So I was going to get two unbalanced male 1/4" to male RCA cables.

Thanks everyone for the help....I will use this post later if I end up with crappy sounding recordings....lol

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:20 pm

Sorry but any degradation of sound from DIs is going to be completely overshadowed by the sound quality of your Fast Track Pro.
Radials are incredible overkill for this kind of budget. I'm not denying they're good, I use their basic model (ProDI 1) multiple times a week and my friend has an active JDI for his bass that's excellent. But considering we're talking about a 170e soundcard it doesn't make sense to spend up to 200e or more on DIs.

I've used these recently and they were absolutely fine;
http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_dip_ ... di_box.htm

23e a piece.

That said, there's probably no need for any at all.

LZ · Post by LZ » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:32 pm

I agree, I wouldn't buy one unless he needs it.

The radials don't cost that much here. You can get a stereo (2-ch) passive for about $160 US.

Even in a live situation, once I switched, my sound was noticeably improved over the cheaper Behringers, Rolls, etc. that a lot of the sound guys had been using. In fact, it was night and day, and that's in a live band situation. I would think for recording it would be even more noticeable. Just my 2 cents.

I occasionally run the Kronos through my home stereo as you describe (a pair of 1/4" to RCA cables). I have to turn the stereo up quite a bit and there is more noise there than I like. If I instead run it through a mixer first, it's better. Best overall is through a DI into the mixer then the stereo.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:42 pm

160 is still a lot if the soundcard is 170.
But it's a moot point. I agree they're good, that's why I use them too, live. At home, recording directly to my interface is perfectly fine.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:48 am

Those combination xlr trs ts inputs be careful, good for mic or instrument inputs but some will provide phantom power over xlr not sure about trs, but will not supply it over ts. I don't know how the kronos would react to phantom power being sent to it. Maybe it isn't an issue some one with more knowledge will hopefully educate us.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:05 am

It depends on the device, but a good thing to be aware of. Another good reason for a DI. Live, I use a QSC K10. The XLR outs for each channel are hard wired to the combo inputs (not a DI). On the combo input, the 1/4" is unbalanced. So even if you used balanced cables in and out, the XLR out would actually be unbalanced. Regarding phantom power, if FOH has phantom power on, it loudly pops my K10 and makes it him, and it doesn't work. Luckily, the few times this has happened, it hasn't damaged it. If I had the Kronos plugged directly in, likely that voltage would show up at the Kronos with the potential to damage it. As it is, I run the Kronos through a DI and use the "through" from the DI to the K10. My mic runs in the other K10 channel and thru to FOH.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:55 am

Are you sure about the K10? I haven't looked at a print but I wonder if there isn't some filtering. I do need to know now so I will find a print or email QSC to find out. Thanks for the heads up!

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:41 am

What do you mean by filtering?

On the individual channel outs, the XLR out is hard wired directly to the XLR in. The sum XLR out us the output after the 2-ch mixer and is the same that is sent to the amp. I don't know if any isolation is provided on that out.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:06 am

Filtering/isolation something to prevent voltage current whatever from being back feed into the inputs. In my head that would be a given considering the odds of use but then again I rarely think like everyone else.

jeebustrain · Post by **jeebustrain** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:02 am

Another cable option is Seismic Audio. I have bought various cables from them over the years, along with a 16/4 snake for my drums and they've all been fantastic. But Monoprice is definitely very good (especially for the price)

Ian26 · Post by **Ian26** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:38 am

Hi KronosSoundDesigns,

Just want to let you know that you can adjust the Volume of the Optical S/P DIF output by using the Master Slider on your Kronos the one next to the 8/16 Slider. Yes, you are right the Master Volume knob doesn't adjust the Optical S/P DIF output, only the Analogue Outputs.

Also I have a Creative ZXR Sound Card, I only use the Optical S/P DIF output(Kronos) to record via the Optical S/P DIF input of the Creative ZXR into Cubase. I use the Master Slider to adjust my volume. But with the ZXR you do get a great sound. The ZXR uses Burr-Brown DAC's just like the ones in your Kronos. So it's Good.
I did a test to see which was better the Main L/R Analogue and Headphone outputs compared to the Optical S/P DIF output of the Kronos into the ZXR.
- Main L/R and Headphone (using Balanced Cables): Sound Very Good, but I had to turn the Master Volume Knob up to get the same volume as the Optical S/P DIF output. When you are not playing and you turn up the volume Knob, there is a little, but only a little of Noise and Hum.
- Optical S/P DIF output (using a Chord Company Optichord Cable): Sound Excellent, Good Strong Hot Signal comes through. NO Noise or Hum even if you turn Up the Master slider to max and play loud. The Bass on the ZXR is well controlled.

I found this Equipment Setup to work best for me. I also did a lot of research, I was also going to get a Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 which has a Optical Input and Firewire to the PC. But I was not sure if my PC's built in Firewire port was any good for Audio. But anyway I went with the ZXR which I'm happy with. My PC is a Intel i7 with 16Gb RAM and SSD running Windows 7.

I hope this is helpful or I may of just confused you more.

Cheers,

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:03 pm

Thanks Ian26,

That is good to hear about the TOSLINK's on the Creative Z's, amazon has them for $85 but newegg $119, and best buy had them for as low as $79 during the holiday but are now $119 too. I think I am going to try the Z because it will leave Presonus Studio One 2.6 in my budget. I have Cockos Reaper which is what I am used to, and I have experience with Cubase but I have heard even the latest Cubase is touchy on Windows. So Studio One is going to be it for me, as far as DAW's go.

That saves me $100 as per buying the 22VSL from presonus.

Now to find a good Microphone to plug into the Kronos for Vocals, a mic that doesn't require the 48v phantom power. Anybody got advice on a good mic?

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:02 pm

Any decent dynamic mic will do - just get an XLR to TRS cable. I'm using my Beyerdynamic OPUS 89, but I got that after trying lots of vocal kids for live performance. It does equally as well running through the Kronos. But again, any decent dynamic mic should be fine.