Recommended Audio Cables?

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:38 pm

I have Windows 7 Pro 64bit and in order to hear the computer sounds out of my speakers, and the Kronos, at the same time, I have to hook the audio out of the kronos either through SPDIF(which I don't have yet), or from one of the analog outs.

My computer has only onboard audio with an 1/8 inch stereo input. No SPDIF....I thought of investing in a Creative SoundBlaster Z with TOSLINK in/out. I have had very good results with Creative cards in the past and they have good ASIO drivers. So that might be an option.

Here is my question.

If I do not, do the Soundcard upgrade and I go with analog cables and my onboard audio with ASIO4ALL. Should I route the audio of the Kronos, via the headphone jack on the Kronos to the PC with one straight sterero 1/4" to 1/8" cable. or, should I get a Y cable that has two mono 1/4" TS' (for the main Kronos outs) and a one 1/8" stereo plug at the end?

What is a good brand for these options, Monster? HOSA? CBI? Looking to spend no more than like $30 or $40, for cables.

I am leaning toward analog into the PC so I have control of the volume. SPDIF volume is not adjustable from what I have seen and heard.

BTW, isn't silly that we spend $3000+ our Kronos' and the USB audio isn't actually a interface for the PC's audio to pass through..... I wish they could somehow fix that with an OS update. Right now our only option for digital to digital is a separate USB audio/interface, or a soundcard with TOSLINK input.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:52 pm

Please don't get a Creative card. While they're not as bad as they used to be, they're not meant for even semi serious music production, let alone real pro audio.

Get something by MOTU or RME or something. If those are out of your budget, M-Audio or even Roland.

Analog cables are not really as important as you might think when using powerful signals like from a keyboard. Make sure your interface has balanced inputs and get any decent looking balanced cable (the jacks will look like 1/4 inch stereo phones plugs). Definitely don't overpay for stuff like Monster, or gold plugs or whatever. I prefer Neutrik connectors myself, and nothing molded, so you can always fix them if they break.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:17 pm

+1
Get a decent audio interface. Do a little research on some of the ones suggested by SanderXpander.

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:22 pm

Thanks Guys, Yeah I think an pro audio interface would be much better than a creative card.

My sole instrument is the Kronos X, so I don't need a lot of inputs, just the ability to hear the Kronos and the Computer sounds through the same speakers and of course quality signal throughput/recording. Right now my only Soft Synth's are East/West's Symphonic Orchestra Gold and Ministry of Rock.

and these ones seem to be selling like Hotcakes

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBox22/

I may go with Presonus Audiobox VSL22, and get the upgrade to Studio One 2.6, I have been hearing a whole lot of good things about the Presonus environment.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:43 pm

I have used this with a laptop and found it to be very good. Same price as the UR22.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlett2i2/

Niki_Keyz · Post by **Niki_Keyz** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:03 pm

try out www.monoprice.com

LZ · Post by LZ » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:07 pm

Note: depending on your power, grounding, etc., I've encountered noise from ground loops more with the Kronos than other keyboards. Running through a DI always fixes it.

That said, if you go analog, I'd avoid the headphone out and use the main 1/4" outs. If you get an interface with balanced inputs, you can use 1/4 TRS cables for lower noise. If you get one with XLR ins, you have the option of adding a DI if you run into ground loop issues. If you use optical SPIF, there is no ground, so that would be your best possible sound quality - no D/A - A/D conversion, no ground loops or induced noise.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:06 pm

I hear really good stories about the Scarlett series too, in the medium budget range. PreSonus should be equally decent, especially if you're already interested in or invested in Studio One.

All of them better choices than the Creative series, at least for audio recording/production!

Don't sweat the cables too much. Monster and the like is hugely overpriced and marketed with a lot of voodoo speak.
Capacitance and noise shielding are the only real things that affect a cable's "quality". Capacitance is largely irrelevant for low z signals such as keyboards, and especially so at shorter cable lengths. And using a balanced cable takes care of the noise.

Ground loops should be avoided by plugging in all interconnected audio gear into a splitterbox connected to the same wall socket. If you're still getting loop hum for some inexplicable reason a relatively inexpensive pair of passive DIs with a ground lift option should work. You can get them for like 25 bucks a piece.

LZ is correct about the digital signal providing the highest fidelity. There are however some connotations; S/PDIF clock is one-directional, meaning if you want the recording interface to provide the master clock signal (which is common but not technically always necessary) you need to hook up both the in and out. Most medium level interfaces only provide coaxial S/PDIF, meaning you'd need a converter, or rather two of them considering the clock thing. Moreoever, you will need to always record at the Kronos' fixed sample rate of 48KHz. Which may or may not be to your liking.

Personally I'm quite happy with the sound quality of my converters and I don't feel I'm losing significant quality by hooking up my synths with an analog connection. I don't hook up the Kronos all that often though. With my laptop card (an older M-Audio Fast Track Pro) I do feel I can hear some loss of quality, the converters sound a little "flat" to me. So I suppose it can be an issue with cheaper cards, especially as you start recording track after track through the same converters.

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:30 pm

Niki, LZ, Sander, thank you for the info.

Not too sure what DI's are standing for. and please forgive me but I also do not know the difference between unbalanced and balanced. I hear that a lot but didn't want to sound dumb by asking what that means....lol

I have always assumed that balanced meant that the cable or output connector has left and right channels on its one cable or output, and unbalanced meant (mono) or that the left and right channels are separate. I dunno.

something tells me there is more to it then that.....lol

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:40 pm

That's basically the part you need to know about balanced/unbalanced. I'm not an expert on this either, but a balanced cable basically carries an extra line, helping the system to cancel out any noise picked up "on the way".
It only works if both pieces of connected equipment support a balanced connection.

A DI is a Direct Injection box. One of its most common purposes is actually to convert an unbalanced signal into a balanced signal. It often has a few extra features like "ground lift", basically letting you "cut" one of the three lines in the cable (with a button) to help relieve possible grounding loop issues. Called "ground lift".

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:45 pm

So I do want TRS cables, the ones with the two black rings on the 1/4" plug. Let me see if the Presonus VSL22 has balanced in's. Then I wouldn't need two DI's right?

Goughy · Post by **Goughy** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:46 pm

KronosSoundDesigns wrote:...I also do not know the difference between unbalanced and balanced....

Try this thread.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=80946

It contains several links to useful information.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:48 pm

Correct on all counts. The only reason to still need DIs is if you get a ground loop problem. Which seems unlikely. And technically, if your setup is "static" at home, you COULD just cut/desolder the ground line from the plug if you wanted to. EDIT: on ONE of the ends!

usually the input side, so the interface.

KronosSoundDesigns · Post by **KronosSoundDesigns** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:49 pm

Thanks Goughy I will. just checked the 22VSL specs on Sweetwater and found out the inputs are XLR/TS not TRS but the two outs on the back are TRS. Still gonna go with presonus though.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:53 pm

You can get TRS to XLR cables. The only thing is possibly you'll get in trouble from the mic amplifiers. I'll try googling.