Korg Kronos or Yamaha XF

[apex]

I say it for the umpteenth time, the MOTIF has those damn ARPs going for it

Some of my favorite XF Performances are found by going to the Category that has Funk.

There are many Performances in that Category that have a funky bass, horns and a cool wah-wah guitar playing some cool riffs.

Does the Kronos have any Karma guitar wah-wah riffs available (or any Combis that play in the MOTIF style I describe)?

Thanks!

I'm sure... but I've not gone through them like that. .... I'd really like to be able to create my OWN karma GE's. I do own the Karma software.... but it's TOO DIFFICULT to get it working right.... while there is some help available... it's TOO DIFFICULT to get it working right.

if I could get that to work... then Karma would be the answer to the pattern mode problems.

[SanderXpander]

I remember using the Karma software for my original red Karma workstation years ago. I swear it looked like the Matrix on my screen. I could never get it to import a simple two bar midi part without crashing, at the time. It took ages to communicate with the workstation over midi too.

I'm sure things will have improved since then, but I feel your pain.

[digiplay]

It's too bad the Kronos can't have the Combi Categories organized by different genres/styles like the MOTFIF XS/XF has

[digiplay]

I recently bought into the motif experience and I ONLY did that because of the ability to use pattern mode as a live backing band for me during church.

With that said... that pattern mode is THE ONLY real reason that I have my motif xf. Well that and the fact that it's alot easier to transport vs the Kronos (76 keys vs 88 keys). If I could figure out a viable way to achieve my pattern mode results WITHOUT the XF by using my Kronos AND I could do the same thing with my m3 module... I'd probably get rid of the XF pretty quickly.

FINAL ANSWER: KRONOS

Can you explain, in terms that a Dumb Ass like me can understand, the difference between the Pattern Mode (as the MOTIF does it) and the Mode (Linear?) that the Kronos uses, and why one method is more preferable than the other?

Thanks!

[apex]

I recently bought into the motif experience and I ONLY did that because of the ability to use pattern mode as a live backing band for me during church.

With that said... that pattern mode is THE ONLY real reason that I have my motif xf. Well that and the fact that it's alot easier to transport vs the Kronos (76 keys vs 88 keys). If I could figure out a viable way to achieve my pattern mode results WITHOUT the XF by using my Kronos AND I could do the same thing with my m3 module... I'd probably get rid of the XF pretty quickly.

FINAL ANSWER: KRONOS

Can you explain, in terms that a PERSON like me can understand, the difference between the Pattern Mode (as the MOTIF does it) and the Mode (Linear?) that the Kronos uses, and why one method is more preferable than the other?

Thanks!

Simply put pattern mode allows you to section your song off in up to 16 sections (A-P) Sections meaning intro verse1, verse2, chorus, etc... You can work within the confines of that specific section and then move on to the next section of the song. Then you can chain the different sections into different orders and remix/rearrange your song. You can also trigger these different patterns and record it (I think) as a performance and "sequence" your song that way.

Technically you can sequence this way on the Kronos (just section the song off by measures and work within that "section" of the song...)

Then again this is very VERY similar if not the same as our (korg) RPPR mode. But you just are able to assign the patterns to keys or pads and trigger them that way.

But this is not what makes the Motif pattern mode so useful (to me). I record my patters before the performance and then I use them as live backing tracks. See our church's bass player/other keys player went to college and left me with just a drummer... I was soooo used to playing in a "band" context and I didn't want to lose the effect that the band sound would produce that I started researching the Motif and eventually purchased the XF... (didn't realize that I could do it with the Fantom G that I already owned)

We have a choir director that tells the choral members as well as the band which section of the song that we are going to next...If I sequence the entire song into the m3 or the Kronos then we will have to perform the song exactly like it is recorded into the sequencer... this leaves TONS of room for mistakes and miscues (as I'm sure you can imagine) so the motif pattern mode saves the day here. I can just "cue" the section of the song depending on where the choir director says to go to. And as long as she says it before the last measure of the current section (pattern) then I just trigger the next pattern to start and then we move "as a band" to the new section...

make sense?

[Stipes Vigilo]

Quick answer: Kronos

But I own Motif racks, ES & XS too. They do complement each other very well. There are differences in Motif's though. The ES has a slightly louder output which can equate to a little more presence, even when I turn up the XS to match it. The ES arpegiator is easier to access with a single button for it to turn on & off. The XS is a multi button you have to push three times and then turn off. The XS is a little smoother sounding perhaps and definitely has more sampled sounds, so the range might seem subtle as they mostly have the same sounds loaded stock into both, but once you scratch the surface to edit, it's apparent. I would venture to say this would be even more true with the XF as it has twice the sample ram of the XS.

The keyboard is much easier to work with and layer sounds IMO. While both the Kronos & XF loads samples. The motif retains them and doesn't need to reload the same way.

I have considered selling the ES-r and maybe getting an XF (miss having a light portable 76 key mega board) Or maybe even selling the ES & the XS for the XF76. Of course, with prices dropping so much on the ES racks, I've also considered picking up a few more of them instead.

And then it also depends on who you play with. In our areas, bands seem to want their keyboardist to have the Yamahas, because of the amount of stock sounds over anything esoteric. So if I hadn't retired from that gigging madness, I would have to go with the Yamaha XF. But since I have opted to just record in my home studio now, I would definitely keep my Kronos. It fills many levels and types of sound generators.
(btw: the motif es-r & xs-r I often rack with a behringer 1602 and a furman power conditioner in a four-space rack and control with two emu xboard 61's. So I can still give them what they want if I want too).

But if I had both the Kronos and the YXF though, I'd sell my guitar and drums.

[Scott]

The XS is a little smoother sounding perhaps and definitely has more sampled sounds, so the range might seem subtle as they mostly have the same sounds loaded stock into both, but once you scratch the surface to edit, it's apparent.

Some sounds are very similar between the ES and XS, others are pretty different (or exist on only one but not the other). One of the factors is that an ES sound can have up to 4 elements, and XS sound can have up to 8. Though the ES has one other advantage in being able to take PLG expansion cards.

[digiplay]

I recently bought into the motif experience and I ONLY did that because of the ability to use pattern mode as a live backing band for me during church.

With that said... that pattern mode is THE ONLY real reason that I have my motif xf. Well that and the fact that it's alot easier to transport vs the Kronos (76 keys vs 88 keys). If I could figure out a viable way to achieve my pattern mode results WITHOUT the XF by using my Kronos AND I could do the same thing with my m3 module... I'd probably get rid of the XF pretty quickly.

FINAL ANSWER: KRONOS

Can you explain, in terms that a PERSON like me can understand, the difference between the Pattern Mode (as the MOTIF does it) and the Mode (Linear?) that the Kronos uses, and why one method is more preferable than the other?

Thanks!

Simply put pattern mode allows you to section your song off in up to 16 sections (A-P) Sections meaning intro verse1, verse2, chorus, etc... You can work within the confines of that specific section and then move on to the next section of the song. Then you can chain the different sections into different orders and remix/rearrange your song. You can also trigger these different patterns and record it (I think) as a performance and "sequence" your song that way.

Technically you can sequence this way on the Kronos (just section the song off by measures and work within that "section" of the song...)

Then again this is very VERY similar if not the same as our (korg) RPPR mode. But you just are able to assign the patterns to keys or pads and trigger them that way.

But this is not what makes the Motif pattern mode so useful (to me). I record my patters before the performance and then I use them as live backing tracks. See our church's bass player/other keys player went to college and left me with just a drummer... I was soooo used to playing in a "band" context and I didn't want to lose the effect that the band sound would produce that I started researching the Motif and eventually purchased the XF... (didn't realize that I could do it with the Fantom G that I already owned)

We have a choir director that tells the choral members as well as the band which section of the song that we are going to next...If I sequence the entire song into the m3 or the Kronos then we will have to perform the song exactly like it is recorded into the sequencer... this leaves TONS of room for mistakes and miscues (as I'm sure you can imagine) so the motif pattern mode saves the day here. I can just "cue" the section of the song depending on where the choir director says to go to. And as long as she says it before the last measure of the current section (pattern) then I just trigger the next pattern to start and then we move "as a band" to the new section...

make sense?

Since you're using the keyboard live as a backing band, yes, it makes sense to me why you like the Pattern Mode.

But here's my dilemma.

I'm going to use either a Kronos or MOTIF XS/XF to write songs on, plus use it to play live occasionally with my Cover band.

When we play live, I never sequence anything, and any keyboard sound you hear when we do our show is played in realtime by me.

But my ultimate goal is to write originals and get them down on "tape".

Since I only have recording experience, I don't know if it's better to do all my Sequencing on the MOTIF/Kronos, and then record it directly to Logic Studio 9.

That being said, I would want all my instruments to be recorded on different tracks, and before I started thinking of other ways to record (these recent Posts), I had planned on just playing each individual part directly into each track on Logic.

If I did all my Sequencing in advance of going to Logic, how will I get all the sounds outputted to the different tracks on Logic at one time, as neither the Kronos or the XF/XS has enough Individual Outputs?

So, knowing that the ultimate goal is writing original songs (with some help by an inspiring keyboard), and throwing in a iive gig every now and then, do you still think Pattern Mode will work better for me than Linear Mode?

Thanks!

[digiplay]

The XS is a little smoother sounding perhaps and definitely has more sampled sounds, so the range might seem subtle as they mostly have the same sounds loaded stock into both, but once you scratch the surface to edit, it's apparent.

Some sounds are very similar between the ES and XS, others are pretty different (or exist on only one but not the other). One of the factors is that an ES sound can have up to 4 elements, and XS sound can have up to 8. Though the ES has one other advantage in being able to take PLG expansion cards.

But how would you compare the XS sounds vs the XF sounds (more smooth, presence, etc)?

[daybyter]

@apex : wouldn't it be easier to use an arranger for you? Those styles are already organized as patterns, I think ...

[apex]

Can you explain, in terms that a PERSON like me can understand, the difference between the Pattern Mode (as the MOTIF does it) and the Mode (Linear?) that the Kronos uses, and why one method is more preferable than the other?

Thanks!

Simply put pattern mode allows you to section your song off in up to 16 sections (A-P) Sections meaning intro verse1, verse2, chorus, etc... You can work within the confines of that specific section and then move on to the next section of the song. Then you can chain the different sections into different orders and remix/rearrange your song. You can also trigger these different patterns and record it (I think) as a performance and "sequence" your song that way.

Technically you can sequence this way on the Kronos (just section the song off by measures and work within that "section" of the song...)

Then again this is very VERY similar if not the same as our (korg) RPPR mode. But you just are able to assign the patterns to keys or pads and trigger them that way.

But this is not what makes the Motif pattern mode so useful (to me). I record my patters before the performance and then I use them as live backing tracks. See our church's bass player/other keys player went to college and left me with just a drummer... I was soooo used to playing in a "band" context and I didn't want to lose the effect that the band sound would produce that I started researching the Motif and eventually purchased the XF... (didn't realize that I could do it with the Fantom G that I already owned)

We have a choir director that tells the choral members as well as the band which section of the song that we are going to next...If I sequence the entire song into the m3 or the Kronos then we will have to perform the song exactly like it is recorded into the sequencer... this leaves TONS of room for mistakes and miscues (as I'm sure you can imagine) so the motif pattern mode saves the day here. I can just "cue" the section of the song depending on where the choir director says to go to. And as long as she says it before the last measure of the current section (pattern) then I just trigger the next pattern to start and then we move "as a band" to the new section...

make sense?

Since you're using the keyboard live as a backing band, yes, it makes sense to me why you like the Pattern Mode.

But here's my dilemma.

I'm going to use either a Kronos or MOTIF XS/XF to write songs on, plus use it to play live occasionally with my Cover band.

When we play live, I never sequence anything, and any keyboard sound you hear when we do our show is played in realtime by me.

But my ultimate goal is to write originals and get them down on "tape".

Since I only have recording experience, I don't know if it's better to do all my Sequencing on the MOTIF/Kronos, and then record it directly to Logic Studio 9.

That being said, I would want all my instruments to be recorded on different tracks, and before I started thinking of other ways to record (these recent Posts), I had planned on just playing each individual part directly into each track on Logic.

If I did all my Sequencing in advance of going to Logic, how will I get all the sounds outputted to the different tracks on Logic at one time, as neither the Kronos or the XF/XS has enough Individual Outputs?

So, knowing that the ultimate goal is writing original songs (with some help by an inspiring keyboard), and throwing in a iive gig every now and then, do you still think Pattern Mode will work better for me than Linear Mode?

Thanks!

I will have to re read through your post in order to really grasp what you are asking, but I will say this (because it jumped out at me)

The Motif XS and XF will allow you to record ALL 16 tracks to your computer at one time. You just have to buy the firewire card. You install the card and then plug ONE firewire cable from the XF/XS to the computer set up the tracks to output to the right channel... press record play the track and you're DONE! Everything out of the Motif and into the computer on its own track... all in one pass.

[digiplay]

Apex,

Sorry to be so confusing!

There are just SO MANY thoughts running through my head when I'm asking these questions, that I'm sure I seem all over the place!

Now that I've had time to think about it, I think I was asking that if my ultimate goal is songwriting, would it make any difference whether I use a Pattern or Linear approach for Sequencing?

The reason I ask is because if I construct the songs in sections (Pattern Style), can't I do that on Logic as well (without Sequencing)?

S**T, here I go again, starting to go all over the place!

I guess the main questions are:

1) If you'd sequence at all, or would just record each track, one at a time, into Logic (like they did in the good old days)?

2) For my songwriting needs, if I'm going to sequence at all, does it make any difference if I Sequence in Pattern or Linear Mode?

Thanks again!

Jerry

[apex]

you aren't confusing me. just was sidetracked while I was reading and didn't want to read through the entire thing again right then... because I was still sidetracked... lol

(2 little girls running around)

[Stipes Vigilo]

The XS is a little smoother sounding perhaps and definitely has more sampled sounds, so the range might seem subtle as they mostly have the same sounds loaded stock into both, but once you scratch the surface to edit, it's apparent.

Some sounds are very similar between the ES and XS, others are pretty different (or exist on only one but not the other). One of the factors is that an ES sound can have up to 4 elements, and XS sound can have up to 8. Though the ES has one other advantage in being able to take PLG expansion cards.

But how would you compare the XS sounds vs the XF sounds (more smooth, presence, etc)?

I only have the XF demos to compare them to that, so I won't. Except that I would get one the moment they put it into a rack and am still considering the keyboard. And Remember, I have the rack versions of XS & ES. I also sold my PLG AN & DX exp cards and don't even miss them.

[SanderXpander]

If you have Logic set up ready to go I would never do any sequencing on the board itself, no matter which one you go with. Before long you'll probably be using VSTs/AUs half the time anyway. Editing is just soooo much easier from a DAW.