Korg Kronos or Yamaha XF

digiplay · Post by **digiplay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Hi guys!

I asked this question in another Post, and one of the Forum Members thought it might be a good topic for a completely different Post.

So here is the question:

If you own (or have owned) a Yamaha XF and a Korg Kronos, and you had to sell only one of them, which one would you keep and why?

Thanks

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:53 pm

Let me get the girls down for nap, then I'll post.

digiplay · Post by **digiplay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:13 pm

I always look forward to your Posts (You are Da' Man!!).

I'm going to throw in a side question to you as well.

Didn't you used to have a XS Rack also?

How do you compare the sound of the XS vs the XF?

The reason I ask is because the difference in street price (used) between the two is about $600 to $800.00, and I wanted to know if you thought the difference in price/sound was worth the extra money.

Thanks!

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:30 pm

This topic has come along at a perfect time for me. I'm trying to decide on a Kronos, Motif XF or Motif XS Rack. I have been leaning towards the Motif side since I have an M3 and I'm not sure the Kronos brings enough new things to the table.

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:35 pm

I've actually considered this recently... not because I had to, but because I just wanted to. I wanted to downsize and just master one of these wonderful instruments. But when I start thinking about it, it just seems impossible to decide BETWEEN the two.

One obvious advantage (that is a preference thing because of my own situation): But my Kronos is an 88 key (which I MUST HAVE - 88 weighted keys) and my XF is a 76 key.

Each of the two have special places to me. I am a korg guy at heart. My first major synth purchase was a Korg Triton Pro X (classic) (88 keys) and I paid for it with my own money. I kept it 10-11 years and then upgraded to the m3. I recently bought into the motif experience and I ONLY did that because of the ability to use pattern mode as a live backing band for me during church. I pre play all the "other" parts and then play piano OR organ on top of the tracks. I sold my Fantom G7 to get the XF... little did I know or understand that the pattern capability was already with me in the Fantom G (for that reason I DO regret selling the Fantom. It was just a "funner" keyboard to play.

With that said... that pattern mode is THE ONLY real reason that I have my motif xf. Well that and the fact that it's alot easier to transport vs the Kronos (76 keys vs 88 keys). If I could figure out a viable way to achieve my pattern mode results WITHOUT the XF by using my Kronos AND I could do the same thing with my m3 module... I'd probably get rid of the XF pretty quickly.

BUT....
Then there's the whole KRONOS and M3 combo thing that doesn't make as much sense to me because how "similar" in color they sound and how "similar" in features they are.

As it stands now, the Kronos seems like the "funner" board to have and play... but that pattern mode just can't be beat.

I'm a professional musician and my main income stream is from playing music. But I don't necessarily do that with the XF OR the Kronos... I'm a techie at heart and I like to learn about the gear and teach other people about the features of the boards (I get paid to do this as well). So I feel a "need" to get to know each and every board.

The idea of the Kronos is my favorite concept (keyboard) that I've ever played/owned. There's not much that I can say that I don't like about the board and not much that I can say that I "wish" it could do. These days it's kinda stupid to even expect to get EVERYTHING in one place. Technology makes it so that we shouldn't expect to be able to do that and we can do pull resources from different places without spending a TON of money. But we CAN achieve ALOT of what we need within any ONE of these boards. Although, there are things here and there that can make us say ..... "hm....." but overall, there is TONS under the hood of ANY ONE OF THESE BOARDS. A few of us are blessed to be able to pull from a few different places. A couple different workstations, a workstation and an IPAD, a workstation and a computer, etc....

But there is REALLY TONS more here than we could EVER really find practical use for. Seriously... think about it.

Ok now I've danced all around your question and I'm sure you are wondering which I would pick. I wonder what you think I'm going to say.

But the answer is: If I HAD to get rid of one RIGHT now.... I'd get rid of the Motif XF. (then I'd go buy a motif 6 classic version or a mo6, so I'd still have access to pattern mode... lol) (maybe I should do that ANYWAY, it would certainly be alot less expensive.)

The Kronos just has TOO much of what I'd idealistically want under the hood of a board. Albeit, in the right hands the "right" programmer could probably do with the XF what any other person could do within all 8 engines of the Kronos.

I've thought (maybe from an external conversation... not sure) but that the Kronos is really not "capable" of any sounds that the XF, Fantom G, or even the m3 couldn't do. The engines just provide a "interface" with which one would use to create a "certain type" of sound....

not sure how much truth is in that concept or idea... but it kinda makes sense. Or maybe it shows my limited programming ability or knowledge.

I'll take that...

But now that it's out there, someone can show/teach me otherwise and I'll just learn from it and continue to enjoy doing what I do!!!!

FINAL ANSWER: KRONOS

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:41 pm

I think the Kronos is far beyond the M3, but it depends very much on where your focus is. I use my Kronos 99 percent live in a band context, and do a lot of custom programming. Being able to use FM/DX, analog emulation, tonewheel emulation and huge streaming sample libraries in a single board is huge to me.

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:55 pm

now that I put that out there.... I'd like to add this

The Motif offers a different experience, but the XF is def NOT the way to go if you want to get into the Motif line of keyboards.

I think you'd have JUST as much if not more enjoyment and playability out of the XS or even the ES.

I paid $2000 shipped brand new in box from a dealer for my xf7 a little under 2 years ago I think. At that time that is about $700-800 less than ANYONE else was paying... AND i'd sold my Fantom g7 for $2600 so it was a win win for me. If you don't have 512mb-2gb worth of samples that you need loaded each and every time you turn on your motif... then there is ZERO reason at all to buy the XF. and when I say ZERO.... I mean ZERO!!!!

Spend alot less ($600-$800 or even $1000) in some instances and just get the XS.

But I do enjoy/need/depend on the pattern mode that the Motif engine offers. But you can get the same EXACT pattern mode with a $400 mo6...

See what I'm saying?

And even more so... you could go as far as saying the ES would suffice (vs the XS). The 8 faders vs 4 is going to be one of the first "cosmetic" differences that you see, BUT you have to go through a few different programming tricks to get full use of those 8 (4 extra) faders that are there. Primarily we think they are there to allow use to layer 8 sounds and use the faders to control the volume... and this is NOT the case. You can achieve this, but like I said, it takes some know how to get it out of the keyboard. With Kronos, m3, Oasys.... it's just THERE. But then again we don't have pattern mode either.

And everyday use that I have for the Motif is one thing (and I know how to do EVERYTHING that I need it to do). But then when I sit down with other uses that have different needs than I do, and I have to teach them how to achieve the goals that they have.... I see the Motif from a different angle and I just think...."wow, that would have been SOOOO much easier if they'd just done it this way".... I've had that thought about Korg stuff too...(at times at least), but the concepts don't seem as "simplistic" as the stuff that yamaha could have done differently.

Somethings are specific and others aren't.... sometimes just a matter of preference and other times, it's a REAL need.

But at the end of the day... I do love my Motif XF AND my Kronos and together they are an awesome team. But there are people out there that say their Kurzweil and their Fantom are an awesome team. Everyone has different needs and different goals. Most never realize either. and most never realize the FULL potential of what's under the hood.

We could go back 2 generations and still not hit ........ I'll just say 65% of what's under the hood of those boards.... now sit a Kronos on the table and HONESTLY.... you never need another keyboard (workstation) ever again...

same thing with the Yamaha Motif. They are BOTH end all boards (realistically) but since they know we are waiting on the "new" thing, they continue to make them. and we continue to buy them.

Maybe I couldn't say this 15 years ago, but now I know I can say this FOR SURE.... what else can we ask for that we really have a "practical" use for? I mean yea we can say give me 24 tracks vs 16 or even 50.... but do we really need that? why not just turn it into an audio track or something.... (utilizing what's there) or even at what point do you just bring in a computer to put on the icing?

We have tools that people like the beatles or even mike jackson could have only dreamed of during their hey days!!!!

There is TOO MUCH UNDER THE HOOD.
PUSH IT TO THE LIMIT

THEN ASK FOR MORE! - until then the rest is just EXTRA!

BUT I do need a pattern based sequencer playback system on my Kronos!!!

LOL.

digiplay · Post by **digiplay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:57 pm

Apex,

Great reply!

How about my question in regards to the XS vs XF sound, and whether you thought the $600 to $800 price difference (for used ones) is worth it?

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:00 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:This topic has come along at a perfect time for me. I'm trying to decide on a Kronos, Motif XF or Motif XS Rack. I have been leaning towards the Motif side since I have an M3 and I'm not sure the Kronos brings enough new things to the table.

see this post for some help:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 085#547085

digiplay · Post by **digiplay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:02 pm

Apex,

I noticed you answered my question while I was re-typing it.

I agree that one could put the price difference (of the XS vs the XF) into other gear like a NEO Vent or the VB3 Software (if one wanted to upgrade the MOTIF Organ/Leslie FX).

Thanks!

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:03 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I think the Kronos is far beyond the M3

Yup. The M3 is basically an older version of one of the nine engines in the Kronos.

If you care about EPs, clonewheel, VA synths, the Kronos is way ahead of the M3 or any Motif. Other Kronos advantages over M3 and Motif: the ability to load your own custom sounds onto the SSD (easier and faster than dealing with Yamaha's flash boards, and much higher capacities), Set List mode, smooth sound transition.

I wish it came in a 7x-key unweighted version like the Motif, though. Yamaha also has a number of acoustic instrument sounds I prefer over the stock Kronos sounds. There are also times that the hard buttons are easier to deal with than the touchscreen.

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:08 pm

digiplay wrote:Apex,

Great reply!

How about my question in regards to the XS vs XF sound, and whether you thought the $600 to $800 price difference (for used ones) is worth it?

Nope I don't hear or notice a $600 price difference between the XS (rack) and XF board. I mean I've heard the comments on the different outputs and all that.... but for me naw, I don't think there would be a $600 difference.

I mean think about it... even if there is a difference, is the XS really that bad? And if it is, what does that say about ALL the recordings and uses of the XS before the Xf was available. Now I know some will say... "well... you can say that about anything, newer is still newer and improved is still improved"

and that's valid. but for me.... side by side.... if I had a choice between xs and xf at a $600 price difference, I'm going to choose the xs.

now if I had 512mb-2GB worth of samples that I needed loaded and couldn't stand to wait for them to load up... then that $600 price difference may seem more reasonable and justifiable (oh yeah let's not even talk about that if you DO need the samples available and loaded up every time you turn the board on, you will pay the extra $600+ just for the keyboard and THEN you have to go and purchase a flash card $149 (512mb) - roughly $500 (2gb) so you can save the samples to flash... so really you have to ask yourself are those samples being loaded and available immediately at start up worthy not $600.... but $750-$1100....

NOT TO ME> not right now at least. lol

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:20 pm

As a previous owner of an original motif, a current owner of a motif XS and a Kronos, the Kronos would stay HANDS DOWN. I'm speaking from a live perspective mainly. The Motif has a few sounds that I feel are better than the Kronos (Horns, Saxes, & Guitars especially) and more usable presets right out the box, but this can be remedied and superseded with time and effort. The only thing the Kronos can't TOUCH the Motif on is the Vocoder. While the Motif's isn't a gold standard, the Kronos's is just abysmal.

The Motif Pattern mode is nice and I don't know if you can do that with Karma. Everytime I work with Karma I go through thousands or unorganized presets (The "Categories" are USELESS!) gnashing my teeth only still to come out with something not quite what I wanted. Whether this can be remedied by spending the $150+ for software, I don't know. I don't view either's sequencer for more than a scratchpad and have only used a handful of times each so hard to have a solid opinion.

Dany · Post by **Dany** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:20 pm

Scott wrote: Yup. The M3 is basically an older version of one of the nine engines in the Kronos.

This is not exactly correct...

The Kronos HD-1 engine originates from the OASYS HD-1 engine, but offers 8 instead of 4 velocity switches. HD-1 (High Definition) synthesis uses uncompressed waveforms.

The M3, which was released after the OASYS, uses the EDS (Enhanced Definition Synthesis) engine with compressed waveforms.

-

digiplay · Post by **digiplay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:32 pm

I say it for the umpteenth time, the MOTIF has those damn ARPs going for it :wacky:

Some of my favorite XF Performances are found by going to the Category that has Funk.

There are many Performances in that Category that have a funky bass, horns and a cool wah-wah guitar playing some cool riffs.

Does the Kronos have any Karma guitar wah-wah riffs available (or any Combis that play in the MOTIF style I describe)?

Thanks!