Should Songwriters plan on keeping a ' Kronos ' forever ?

[Derek Cook]

All good advice, and remember a song is never finished - it just gets abandoned until at some point you might decide to revisit it again - at which point you want all your options open to redo it.

This is quite true for me right now. After many happy years with Welsh Floyd, I have left (for many reasons) and want to get back to my original music. What I was proud of ten years ago is still good (I think!), but I feel i can do better now with all I have learnt in the intervening years. Some of the songs were complete, but some were rough demos chucked down before going away on long business trips and before I forgot the idea. So I have No qualms going back with the aim to improve on them

[GregC]

All good advice, and remember a song is never finished - it just gets abandoned until at some point you might decide to revisit it again - at which point you want all your options open to redo it.

This is quite true for me right now. After many happy years with Welsh Floyd, I have left (for many reasons) and want to get back to my original music. What I was proud of ten years ago is still good (I think!), but I feel i can do better now with all I have learnt in the intervening years. Some of the songs were complete, but some were rough demos chucked down before going away on long business trips and before I forgot the idea. So I have No qualms going back with the aim to improve on them

you think like me, brother.

We keep our options open.

[Mike Conway]

I have MIDI tracks of my songs that were made going back to 1989. Audio files don't satisfy me, as I like to grab MIDI data and rework it.

My setup in 89' was an SY77, E-MU Pro/Cussion, a TX816 FM rack (8 DX7s) and 2 TX16W samplers. I upgraded to the SY99, which was completely compatible, and I still have all the other gear The units still function and accessing old songs/sounds is a big reason I keep old gear.

After composing a lot of stuff on the Roland XP50, I bought the first Fantom, which is also compatible. I sold the Fantom to my stepdad, but he ended up not using it and giving it back to me, so I still have my Roland MIDI tracks.

During that process of possibly losing all my Roland songs, I had the Fantom play all my MIDI tracks to my OASYS sequencer. OASYS and Kronos have multiple track record, so I could just record a song in a single pass. I didn't want to make a GM MIDI file conversion. I did it that way, as I wanted to record/hear the tracks with the substitute sounds, in real time.

As for the sounds, I had to approximate the Roland sounds with Korg sounds. No problem with guitars, pianos, and the like, but with synth sounds, I just found something similar. Nice to have the category function on Korg synths, as I could just search for pads, basses, or whatever I needed.

I've had the OASYS, since 2005. I've done hundreds of songs on it, plus it holds all my Roland songs (about 60 more). You've probably seen THIS video, where I play an exact copy of an OASYS project on the Kronos. Just as with the SY77 and SY99, and the XP50 and Fantom, I like to have compatible backups. Same goes with OASYS and Kronos.

For the long haul, I would definitely consider a Kronos 2. If not, I'm hoping Korg stays with this OASYS platform, as they have with the Kronos. That's 12 years, so far, of people creating and composing on the same format. Indeed, longer than some Sony technologies.

Furthermore, when my SY99 dies, all those DX7/TX816 sounds that I converted for that are also available on the OASYS/Kronos, via MOD-7. There's a reason that I love these Korgs so much, and a lot has to do with the fact that they can make all the sounds that I was working with, 28 years ago! Yes, I sampled my E-MU drums and other sounds into the OASYS/Kronos, too.

As an example, here is a video of my gear in 1991. Check out the FM sound (TX816) at the 1:55 mark:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Wrv8_aQ0Azg" frameborder="0"></iframe>


In 2007, I posted this OASYS clip, using the MOD-7 version of the same FM sound, as above (about 11 seconds in):

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OA_xrr7LALI" frameborder="0"></iframe>

In 2017, I still have all that stuff. I don't gig, so my gear stays in decent shape. I don't see my Kronos dying, soon. If so, Kronos 2 will cover it, as all my data is backed up to USB drives. I'm pretty sure you can keep your Kronos platform going for another 15+ years.

[GregC]

I have MIDI tracks of my songs that were made going back to 1989. Audio files don't satisfy me, as I like to grab MIDI data and rework it.



In 2017, I still have all that stuff. I don't gig, so my gear stays in decent shape. I don't see my Kronos dying, soon. If so, Kronos 2 will cover it, as all my data is backed up to USB drives. I'm pretty sure you can keep your Kronos platform going for another 15+ years.

In my opinion, you are a legend, Mike. What a wealth of knowledge you have with this stuff. Really lucky to have you helping out.

I see Kronos 2 as a good patch for us long term Song musicians.
Its an option for me, to get that in a year from now. I still want to
see if Korg makes a move at Jan NAMM 2018.

I will try to replace my skepticism with your +15 year Kronos platform prediction.

[hermanmusic]

My first Workstation was an 01/Wfd purchased in 1993. For the next 12 years I composed using it's 16 track sequencer. Then came my Triton Extreme 88. 3 years on that one. Then Oasys, 6 years. Financial distress in 2014. Krome 88 until... now...financial recovery... getting ready to buy a Kronos 88. Why? So I can load my Oasys sequences and samples.

But what about all those songs made on the Triton and 01/Wfd?
I'm on my third 01/Wfd, I've had two Extremes and there will be a third soon after I secure a Kronos.

Still have a Peavey Spectrum Bass, 03R/W, a Yamaha MU100, but man, without my old Casio VZ10M there are a few songs that just don't sound the same. Seriously.

Oh, standard MIDI files work to a point, but then you have to reorchestrate, and well, sometimes they sound cool, but never the same.

I too, wrote many songs about past loves, the passing of family members, celebrations, etc., etc., and the "sounds" are part of those songs. Changing the sounds changes the song. So, yup, I'm tethered to my instruments, too, and I hope they last for the rest of my life, but I know that they probably will not.

What an interesting topic. Think I'll look up and see what a VZ10M is going for on eBay. And then there was my K5000W...

[Mike Conway]

Nice of you to say, Greg. Thanks!

I will try to replace my skepticism with your +15 year Kronos platform prediction.

I'm just going by how long I've had various gear, especially the OASYS, which is 12 years old, now. With all the generations of Kronos boards, up to this point, it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement for the next several years.

[timbukktwo]

GregC-

What a great post; this makes for great conversation that could last a record number of pages, for sure. I saw this thread when there were just a few responses wanting to respond, but had to go to work. I couldn't wait to jot a few things down with you guys, because this thread really resonates with me. Isn't it so true in wanting something to just last forever? As much as I hate to admit this, I've accepted the flexibility of moving on is more so the norm. I still have my trusty Triton Extreme w/Moss and will absolutely hate it when it finally dies! It sounds so good with the Kronos! I know there are many options out there, but when things really fit for you, it's tough to change (at least for me).

I don't fear too much regarding the Kronos, because the way I look at it (even if I'm wrong), what else could/would their be outside of an improved feature-set? It's pretty much the top of the heap (for one device) to behold! I could hope Korg would continue for awhile in improving / adding to what's already there. I suppose nothing can be end game, even the Kronos. New ideas, new directions, etc.

I'm definitely not limiting the human mind, but it sure is hard for me to imagine what Korg (regarding the Kronos) as workstations are concerned, just how much better can it be? Realistically, that is! I mean, to have EVERYHING one could want, would the masses REALLY be willing to pay for that? Many couldn't afford the Oasys! I'm really, really greatful to Korg for the Kronos as it is. I do hope and pray Korg will, in time, maybe throw in a few more goodies Kronos' way before it's time to move on. It IS though, hard to imagine.

[GregC]

GregC-

What a great post; this makes for great conversation that could last a record number of pages, for sure. I saw this thread when there were just a few responses wanting to respond, but had to go to work. I couldn't wait to jot a few things down with you guys, because this really resonates with me. Isn't it so true in wanting something to just last forever? As much as I hate to admit this, I've accepted the flexibility of moving on is more so the norm. I still have my trusty Triton Extreme w/Moss and will absolutely hate when it finally dies! It sounds so good with the Kronos!

I am glad you checked in. I still remember posting with you from years ago.

I think a good memory plus appreciation of our past helps define who we are and what we place value on.

It was a tough call ( +5 yrs ago) to sell my pristine Extreme 76 w/Moss. It was to some lucky cat in San Jose.

It was brutal letting it go because I felt the Kronos would be a demanding mistress with my time and energy. I hope this makes sense.

[timbukktwo]

Hey, GregC! Of course, I remember you! Quite the post count you have since we last chatted there, buddy!

I should've previewed (before submitting) my post before adding, but I was so excited to at least get something in there. Not else to mention I'm ocd regarding posting edits. Good grief.

I know what you're saying regarding TEX/Moss, though. But! I couldn't give her up, just couldn't (I'm NOT judging you!). I'm completely tapped out, though, emotionally, financially, etc. in building the studio. I decided earlier on that whatever I needed to do, it had to be done. Now I smell, have a 3-inch beard, and my toe nails need cutting, ETC! You know what, though, I did it! I'll never do it this way ever again, though, that's for sure. I'm so out of balance, it's not even funny. What a crazy life its' been, but what an awesome journey! Just amazing! I'm alive! I wouldn't replace this dream for anything!!

[GregC]

Hey, GregC! Of course, I remember you! Quite the post count you have since we last chatted there, buddy!

I should've previewed (before submitting) my post before adding, but I was so excited to at least get something in there. Not else to mention I'm ocd regarding posting edits. Good grief.

I know what you're saying regarding TEX/Moss, though. But! I couldn't give her up, just couldn't (I'm NOT judging you!). I'm completely tapped out, though, emotionally, financially, etc. in building the studio. I decided earlier on that whatever I needed to do, it had to be done. Now I smell, have a 3-inch beard, and my toe nails need cutting, ETC! You know what, though, I did it! I'll never do it this way ever again, though, that's for sure. I'm so out of balance, it's not even funny. What a crazy life its' been, but what an awesome journey! Just amazing! I'm alive! I wouldn't replace this dream for anything!!

Hey brother, I go way back. I think Sharp launched the forum in 2001 ?
anyway, in buying a Triton, I stumbled into it 2002. Thats about 350 posts per year if we annualize it.

I think my posting, really my contribution, picked up when I got the Kronos. Its because I love the keyboard and I don't mind sharing what little I know

With that post count, I have collected a nice collection of insults. And from all over the world ! They are all very funny.

My wife notices when my feet smell and the office stinks. She threatens to hose it all down but I yell at her she will ruin my keyboard and our wood flooring. So I hear you about obsession !

AFAIAC, we live in the best of times for music creation. I have never been more excited about music.

[Mike Conway]

I know what you're saying regarding TEX/Moss, though. But! I couldn't give her up, just couldn't (I'm NOT judging you!).

There was a time when I had the Triton Classic, Triton Extreme, the EXB MOSS board, and the OASYS, all in the same room. It was absolutel glorious!



To be honest, I never really got on that well with the Triton's sequencer. Though the OASYS sequencer was quite similar, what made the difference for me was the sysex automation, the large Trackview screen, the audio tracks, the increased number of effects, HDR recording/loading, and the new bus system. It was so much easier to handle audio now.

When the OASYS' price was announced, I was so disappointed that I easily justified buying the Triton Extreme. it came with free legacy software (wavestation,Polysix,MS20) and the MS20 controller. But as the release got closerI could not resist any longer. I kept all of the gear, long enough to finish a couple of projects, but I had to eventually give up something or my wife would kill me.

The Extreme was a beautiful instrument, loaded to the brim with Programs and Combis. I really did love it.





Funny thing is that my room looks look like that again. I've been slipping in the gear, but gradually. I said, "Don't worry honey I'll sell this Virus C, the Fantom, and these Tritons." What I didn't say, was that I was eventually going to replace them with a Virus TI, a Deepmind 12, and a Kronos. Then the Fantom got returned, and somebody else literally gave me a VFX SD. I guess I'll have to do another purge if I'm ever gonna get that Waldorf Quantum!

[spaceman3]

This topic i have given much thought.
KRONOS backup plan.
In about a year, i will be able to invest around $3000 for new gear.
I thought about the KOMPLETE 11 but, it just didnt do it for me.
I mean sure alot of the guitar and orchestra loops sounded great but they were loops of actual instruments bieng played, of course they are gonna sound realistic.
I searched all of utube to try and find video demos of keyboard players actually playing KONTACT 11 instrument sounds as keys, and not already written mini songs (loops) but, i could only find a few.
Dont get me wrong, sometimes i will use a drum loop to get a song started, or i might use an arp or wavesequence, but i just dont want someones guitar rhythms or massive loops creating for me.
So KONTAKT 11 doesnt apeal to me.
Then i actually considered a YAMAHA MONTAGE.
With its own sound engine and cubase sequenceing software, but the software side of montage or KOMPLETE would more than likely kill my fast songwriting creativity.
So software isnt going to do it for me.
So i think i will probably get a K2 61 as a backup plan.
KRONOS is still one bada** machine.
In a way KRONOS is future proof.
Eventually PC drivers become outdated and wont work when alot of synths get older.
but KRONOS will always be able to stand outside of that and still be an all in one.
Basicaly because it doesnt need a computer to do its thing.

[kronoSphere]

There is an ineffable freshness at the precise moment of the creation of a song. Then months after, years after, many of that is definitely lost. That's why I am not so aware for a way back to songs that have been done and finished. But more important : I always, now, tend to find a singer for my songs, beacause I know that in the years to come these song will be always alive and well due to the fact that they are sung and here is a charm to hear them back after all these years.
But I will be very pleased (that is the word) if the next workstation from Korg will be able to play simply and precisely the sng files created by the Kronos. The midifile process has too much limitations. I have bought a Triton Extreme just for one song (!!!!) just because the Kronos could not play the Triton file song format. And I remember the good old days of the Irish Acts forum. This Kronos forum is just perfectly fine too

[bobmusic]

I think my posting, really my contribution, picked up when I got the Kronos. Its because I love the keyboard and I don't mind sharing what little I know

That is exactly what I read between the lines in your original post

I love my Kronos, too, and mainly use it for live keyboard playing.
I am part of a Genesis/Collins/Gabriel-Show and my setup is build up from a Kronos 88 and a TrinityProV3 on top. Trinity's coaxial S/PDIF-Output is connected to Kronos optical S/PDIF-Input. I hope this team will work for many years to come. I bought a nearly fresh TrinityPro some years ago and transplanted all the options to it from my dated Trinity that I played from day one in December 1997.

Regarding the Kronos, as mentioned before, Korg is providing us constantly with new models, so it should be possible to get a replacement for some time.
And to have at least a second Kronos as a backup seems to be a good idea to me.

[ksi]

Actually, another way that I use to preserve my compositions is to write them down on a sheet of "paper", with the help of a music notation software on a computer. OK, not every single detail, but at least a lead sheet, and optionally some voices that are to be part of the composition.

I do this, because I mainly play an acoustic instrument, and KRONOS is my tool to arrange the music. At that point, of course, the advices posted above to save a good recording and the MIDI tracks etc. are still fully valid, if you want to recall the arrangement.

And with the arrangement, the biggest concern for me is, that at some point of time it might not be straightforwardly possible to recreate the arrangement -- to apply some slight modifications, without having to put a lot of efforts into this, because KRONOS would not be working any more.

Still, my compositions as such are not really lost by this