MIDI-Chaining Multiple Synths

[tpantano]

Hi!

I must admit, I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to MIDI other than sequencing notes/velocity's and a little bit of CC# work.

I'm getting a new audio interface soon, so that I can input all three of my hardware synths into my DAW at the same time, without a need to switch out cables. I'd like to be able to note sequence them all from my laptop without leaving to re-arrange cables as well.

Now, I've noticed that not any/not many interfaces have multiple MIDI outs and ins. So, I'm assuming that you just chain it through various synths with the use of the thru socket, and then just sequence to different channels for each successive synth?

I have my Moog Slim Phatty which has in/out/thru, my R3 which is in/out/thru, and my GAIA which is just in and out. How might I string these to my MIDI interface, and how might I individually sequence to each of them?

Thanks!

[synthjoe]

Hi tpantano!

For MIDI information going out from the computer to synths, the chaining you've described is one of the best solutions, in lack of a MIDI THRU box. The only thing to be aware of is that daisy-chaining like that adds some delay to the MIDI signal at each instrument, so it is best to leave pads and similar non timing critical sounds for the end of the chain - if you can. The delay is really not that big with three synths, but still a good practice to observe this rule.

The bigger problem is usually the sequencing (recording) of these instruments, as each have their individual MIDI OUT, but I assume you only have one MIDI IN on your computer. In such cases there are a number of things you can do:
1. use a master keyboard and control all of the synths from that - in this case the master keyboard's output will go to the computer's MIDI IN
2. switch cables (corresponding synth's MIDI OUT to the computer's MIDI IN) between recording passes - not very convenient, but effective
3. use a MIDI merger box, which gives you an input for each of your keyboard and a single, combined output that goes to the single MIDI IN on your computer. This is the most convenient, but somewhat expensive solution and can cause trouble when you forget about the configuration and want to record from more than one keyboard at a time...

So, as far as playing back from the computer and multitracking from the synths, there should be no problem - just daisy chain them with the THRU-to-IN configuration you've referred to. The rest (sequencing) will require you to take a decision - then we can elaborate more on the details of that particular solution.

However, I'd also highlight that with multitimbral synths (and that applies to yours as well) you should expect a response (sound) on more than one channels from a single synth and therefore quite some configuration needs to take place to disable the channels where a particular synth should not respond - and allow others, where it should. Also, bandwidth is quite scarce over traditional MIDI, so you can easily jam the MIDI connection when sending a lot of bend/mod/aftertouch/etc. data to several synths simultaneously. For all the above reasons I'd still advise you to look for a multiport MIDI interface (such as the M-Audio Midisport 4x4, Roland UM-3EX, Emagic Unitor family, MOTU MicroLite, etc.) or to use the MIDI-over-USB connection for each individual synth, where available (even though this can introduce ground-loop noise problems, for which you'll need to get DI boxes or another solution providing galvanic isolation between audio ports - or an USB isolator for each, but this latter is probably more expensive and less common at the present).

Hope this helps.

[tpantano]

Thank you for the response!

I'm not particularly looking to record MIDI data from any of the synths- rather, I'm just looking for the ability to send MIDI messages from my DAW Logic to any of them at any given time.

I've also just realized that the audio interface I'm looking at has no MIDI outputs/inputs at all, and I planned on selling my old audio interface which had MIDI inputs on it. This puts me into the market for a new MIDI interface as well.

So, what are these MIDI thru boxes you talk about? Would it be worth getting one, or is it best (due to price concerns) just to get a singular MIDI interface and chain them up?

[SanderXpander]

A one port device will obviously be cheaper, but for the cleanest possible solution it might be nice to get a 4x4 or 2x4 midi interface. That way, each synth gets its own dedicated port which also shows up as such in your DAW.
Chaining is possible, but I like to be organised, myself :p

[tpantano]

A one port device will obviously be cheaper, but for the cleanest possible solution it might be nice to get a 4x4 or 2x4 midi interface. That way, each synth gets its own dedicated port which also shows up as such in your DAW.
Chaining is possible, but I like to be organised, myself :p

Any suggestions for a USB or Firewire interface that can output to at least 3 synths?

[synthjoe]

I'm not particularly looking to record MIDI data from any of the synths...

Looking at the many real-time knobs, bells and whistles on all of your gear I fear this is a thought you'll soon reconsider.

So, what are these MIDI thru boxes you talk about?

Basically the same as the THRU port on the back of your synth, but you can connect all your synths in a 'star' scheme (hence the exact same amount of delay for each), rather than chaining (each synth having a slightly longer delay in the MIDI signal as you go further away from the source). It is basically seding the same signal to several ports at a time. The opposite direction is the merge box (combining the output of several MIDI ports to go to a single MIDI IN). However, both of these are subject to the 'multiple devices on a single MIDI bandwidth' problem (jamming - resulting in timing problems).

Would it be worth getting one, or is it best (due to price concerns) just to get a singular MIDI interface and chain them up?

No, I would not buy one, and I'd not even chain up on a single port interface. I'd either use the USB connection on each of the synths (and get a hum fixing solution, if that becomes a problem), or go right away with a multiport MIDI interface.

Any suggestions for a USB or Firewire interface that can output to at least 3 synths?

...I'd still advise you to look for a multiport MIDI interface (such as the M-Audio Midisport 4x4, Roland UM-3EX, Emagic Unitor family, MOTU MicroLite, etc.)

As per my earlier post, but you really have quite a selection, go to any online store and look for 'multiport MIDI interface'. These can be pricey, so a second hand or something along the line might also make sense (watch out for drivers being available for your operating system).

[tpantano]

USB isn't much of an option for me as my Macbook only has two USB ports, and I don't plan to purchase an additional one. Furthermore, this causes both my Slim Phatty and my R3 to hum from electrical noise.

I'm iffy on the multi-port interfaces. Due to my budget (which I'm already spending a bit of for the audio interface), a lot of them are out of reach- spending three digits for a functionality that would be convenient but not necessary (as I could continue as I do at the moment, recording loops into multiple tracks) doesn't bode well with me. I am fearful of buying a cheaper product, however, as I've had bad experiences with cheaper MIDI interfaces dropping notes or getting stuck on one note.

So, are there any multi-port interfaces on the cheaper end of things that anyone can vouch for? I'm even willing to buy used, if some of the more professional ones sell for a good price on the used market.

As for real time knob manipulation, that is something that may be useful- I do prefer to do things like cutoff sweeps manually rather than through automation.