SOPA and how it affects the musician

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tpantano
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SOPA and how it affects the musician

Post by tpantano »

SOPA- the supposed "Stop Online Piracy Act" aka "Stupid Oppressive Politicians Antics" as well as the sister bill, PIPA, threaten internet freedom, not just within America, but throughout the entire world.

Should SOPA pass, organizations such as the US government, ISPs, the RIAA and more would essentially be able to take down any website they dislike with ease.

Here's a video on the subject:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YJsyxyWUW0s" frameborder="0"></iframe>

This not only affects our freedom on the internet as a whole and destroys internet creativity, but as musicians, it makes us the RIAAs little b$#@h. We will not only be unable to use samples under fair use, but sites like youtube, or even the Europe based Soundcloud- yes, this bills power can extend to foreign websites- may not be around to host our content.

Here's how I explained it to my mother, while trying to convince her to have a talk with her Washington connections that she has through her employer-
Another thing is that SOPA will really effect music production and remix culture negatively... every artist out there works with samples, be they recordings of drum parts, a disco loop to base a song on (like what my favorite artist Daft Punk does), or Skrillex using a sample of a girl screaming "yes, oh my gosh" from her cup stacking world record video in his song Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites.

Without the ability to freely use sampled content, small artists like myself will be severely hurt... If I published a song that uses a sample completely legally, where I'm not making any money from it, they could claim it's piracy and take it down without any investigation. I'm not just talking about sampling things such as other songs- in addition to my Maschine library, I have a lot of free samples I've found online of drums. I could have a song taken down for the kick drum sound I use, if SOPA passes- I'm not kidding.

This would force me to rely entirely on things like the Maschine library- which, as you know, are easily $350+. It'd cripple my ability to progress forward through internet/viral marketing alone, which artists like Skrillex did- and the only other way to become a well-known musician is to be adopted by Daddy Warbucks and have him pay off a record label. The RIAA doesn't like how musicians are becoming famous through the internet. They want a monopoly on the music business, but with the internet, it's out of their control. But if SOPA passes, the internet is theirs.
Here is another video on the subject:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JhwuXNv8fJM" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Please, if you'd like the internet to remain the bastion of creativity it is today, take as much action as you can. If you're in the US, call your representatives and let them know that you hold the vote- if you're outside, tell anyone you know in the US.

Corporate America wants a monopoly on the whole world- and we simply can't let this happen.
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Post by Sharp »

It's crazy....
I really don't get what's going on in America with this, and the NDAA. That one just blows my mind. Can't believe people are allowing Obama get away with this.

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Post by SMK »

SOPA is DEAD now, so it's a non issue! http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,23 ... X1K0001121
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Re: SOPA and how it affects the musician

Post by Kevin Nolan »

tpantano wrote:SOPA- the supposed "Stop Online Piracy Act" aka "Stupid Oppressive Politicians Antics" as well as the sister bill, PIPA, threaten internet freedom, not just within America, but throughout the entire world.

Should SOPA pass, organizations such as the US government, ISPs, the RIAA and more would essentially be able to take down any website they dislike with ease.

Here's a video on the subject:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YJsyxyWUW0s" frameborder="0"></iframe>

This not only affects our freedom on the internet as a whole and destroys internet creativity, but as musicians, it makes us the RIAAs little b$#@h. We will not only be unable to use samples under fair use, but sites like youtube, or even the Europe based Soundcloud- yes, this bills power can extend to foreign websites- may not be around to host our content.

Here's how I explained it to my mother, while trying to convince her to have a talk with her Washington connections that she has through her employer-
Another thing is that SOPA will really effect music production and remix culture negatively... every artist out there works with samples, be they recordings of drum parts, a disco loop to base a song on (like what my favorite artist Daft Punk does), or Skrillex using a sample of a girl screaming "yes, oh my gosh" from her cup stacking world record video in his song Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites.

Without the ability to freely use sampled content, small artists like myself will be severely hurt... If I published a song that uses a sample completely legally, where I'm not making any money from it, they could claim it's piracy and take it down without any investigation. I'm not just talking about sampling things such as other songs- in addition to my Maschine library, I have a lot of free samples I've found online of drums. I could have a song taken down for the kick drum sound I use, if SOPA passes- I'm not kidding.

This would force me to rely entirely on things like the Maschine library- which, as you know, are easily $350+. It'd cripple my ability to progress forward through internet/viral marketing alone, which artists like Skrillex did- and the only other way to become a well-known musician is to be adopted by Daddy Warbucks and have him pay off a record label. The RIAA doesn't like how musicians are becoming famous through the internet. They want a monopoly on the music business, but with the internet, it's out of their control. But if SOPA passes, the internet is theirs.
Here is another video on the subject:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JhwuXNv8fJM" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Please, if you'd like the internet to remain the bastion of creativity it is today, take as much action as you can. If you're in the US, call your representatives and let them know that you hold the vote- if you're outside, tell anyone you know in the US.

Corporate America wants a monopoly on the whole world- and we simply can't let this happen.
I'm sick and tired of people like you claiming that your "freedom of speech" and your creativity will be affected. That is absolute nonsense. Laws like this are designed for one thing only - to stop the sickening theft of music, books, films across the internet. How is your freedom of speech affected – give an example please. And you’re creativity – how will laws designed only to stop rotten thieves stop you being creative – again give a specific example if you’re going to make that claim.

Anti piracy laws are only that - and as a musician you should be demanding robust means for thieves to be stopped. Musician are bing robbed left right and centre – by the like of Youtube, by ISPs allowing that thieving to go on and by any individual who robs any material form creative artists.

It sickens me the number of people I know who have hard disks filled with illegal downloads of songs and films - even people in my own country who regularly attend Sunday mass and claim to have a moral basis for life - yet they see nothing wrong it ripping off singers, song writers, authors and film makers. Someone I know who is a devote Christian has thousands of songs, films and TV series, illegally downloaded – aided by the ISP who gladly provides the service. Oh yeah they’ll claim they’re not involved, but we all know that are.

Of course you'll be happy to read that congress just shot it down anyway - and that's because of powerful lobbying to support this corruption.

There is nothing, I repeat nothing, threatening freedom of speech - and there absolutely no connection between anti piracy laws and freedom of speech. That’s a claim made by those who are only too happy to rip others off through illegal downloading. You can't walk into a store and just pick up an item and walk out with it without paying for it - yet laws preventing that do not affect your freedom of speech - and as said I am frankly sick of this false argument trumped up every time intellectual property is attempted to be protected from reckless, immoral and unethical thieving that is going on wholesale across the Internet.

Anyone who downloads material illegally is a thief - a rotten crook - and ISP equally culpable. Any ISP supporting this activity in any way should be shut down, lock, stock and barrel. Mechanisms to track such activity could be put in with the blink of an eye – I worked as a network specialist for 9 years and it is a no-brainer to track this activity (but you don't have to be a network specialiast to imagine how an ISP could track this if they wanted to - Telecoms companies already bill you to the byte - so they already track to that level). ISPs are only too delighted to have illegal downloading happen because it accounts for a sizable portion of their data billing.

This could be sorted out with all other freedoms untouched if there was a will - but there isn’t because virtually everyone is involved in robbing and thieving from creative artists. Freedom of speech under threat - creativity under threat - give me a God-damn break.

I realise the gene is out of the bottle on this - but that doesn't mean anyone who downloads material illegally is not a thief.


Kevin
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Post by blinkofanI »

1000% with you on that, Kevin. I can't elaborate more because I'm in a hotel room with bad internet(go figure, still in 2012!) right now and i could loose it anytime. People feel ok with this because they do it in the privacy of their home.

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Re: SOPA and how it affects the musician

Post by tpantano »

Kevin Nolan, I am about to explode with rage. I want to shout obscenities at you. But I won't. You are an idiot, though.

SOPA is not legislation to stop piracy. SOPA was legislation to CENSOR the INTERNET. With it passed, linking to another site, where on another page of that site, there's a comments section where someone posts a link to copyrighted content is grounds for destruction of YOUR SITE.

Korg Forums could EASILY be taken down if this had passed.

Furthermore, with sites like Soundcloud taken down, there'd be nowhere to POST our content.

Additionally, it is PERFECTLY LEGAL to sample songs and use them FOR PERSONAL USE. However, with SOPA *ANY* sample use could be flagged.

Did you even BOTHER to watch the two videos I linked or any of the other 100 that actually explain the legislation?

You are COMPLETELY oblivious.

Also, SOPA isn't the end. Until time ends, the RIAA and MPAA will fight to the death to PREVENT USER CREATED CONTENT. They DON'T WANT THE COMPETITION.

If there is anything that pisses me off to no extent, it's IGNORANCE.

DON'T GO BY THE NAME ALONE. IT'S NOT THE "STOP PIRACY ACT." It's the CORPORATION MONOPOLY ACT. It's not an issue of left wing or right wing, it's not an issue of democrat or republican, it's not an issue of it being a constitutional violation (which is is, but our constitution is flawed- no, it's an issue of BIG COMPANIES wanting ALL THE MONEY and for us to simply consume.

I'm sick of ignorance.
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Re: SOPA and how it affects the musician

Post by tpantano »

tpantano wrote:Kevin Nolan, I am about to explode with rage. I want to shout obscenities at you. But I won't. You are an idiot, though.

SOPA is not legislation to stop piracy. SOPA was legislation to CENSOR the INTERNET. With it passed, linking to another site, where on another page of that site, there's a comments section where someone posts a link to copyrighted content is grounds for destruction of YOUR SITE.

Korg Forums could EASILY be taken down if this had passed.

Furthermore, with sites like Soundcloud taken down, there'd be nowhere to POST our content.

Additionally, it is PERFECTLY LEGAL to sample songs and use them FOR PERSONAL USE. However, with SOPA *ANY* sample use could be flagged.

Did you even BOTHER to watch the two videos I linked or any of the other 100 that actually explain the legislation?

You are COMPLETELY oblivious.

Also, SOPA isn't the end. Until time ends, the RIAA and MPAA will fight to the death to PREVENT USER CREATED CONTENT. They DON'T WANT THE COMPETITION.

If there is anything that pisses me off to no extent, it's IGNORANCE.

DON'T GO BY THE NAME ALONE. IT'S NOT THE "STOP PIRACY ACT." It's the CORPORATION MONOPOLY ACT. It's not an issue of left wing or right wing, it's not an issue of democrat or republican, it's not an issue of it being a constitutional violation (which is is, but our constitution is flawed- no, it's an issue of BIG COMPANIES wanting ALL THE MONEY and for us to simply consume.

I'm sick of ignorance.
EDIT:

Also, I'm rereading through your post. I DID GIVE AN EXAMPLE. LOOK IN MY QUOTATION BRACKETS IN MY FIRST POST.

PIRACY IS BAD. SOPA IS UNRELATED TO PIRACY.

LOOK AT WHAT SOPA IS.
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Post by Ojustaboo »

Piracy is a tough subject.

It's always gone on, I remember as a kid, I'd buy say a Stranglers LP, my mate would buy a Clash LP, he'd tape mine and I'd tape his.

I would say 99.999% of people have partaken in some sort of piracy over their lives, whether photocopying pages of books (some allow it, some don't), or using something like Winrar after the trial period is up.

From that point of view, the last thing I want is and individual criminalised for doing things for their own private use.

Where things are hugely different now though is, to take the example of me and my mate, if the internet had been around then, rather than me buying the Stranglers and him buying the Clash, chances are we would neither have brought either and in addition would have downloaded every other band of that era that we liked too.

So there is a difference, but while there's a difference, it's only because of what technology allows rather than peoples mindsets.

Never a week went by for many many years where I wasn't paying to see a band live, heck I'm 47 now and still paid to see the Stranglers last year, even took my 20 yr old daughter with me :)

There is no way of stopping internet piracy, that is a simple fact. We either close down the internet or it will go on. There is nothing that can be done to stop it. So bands need to look at other ways of making money or sell their music at a price that adults are prepared to pay if they like it.

Bittorent dropped from being the number 1 most used app in the US to something like number 4 or 5 within just a few months of Netflix as people were happy to pay a reasonable monthly subscription to watch stuff.

The music and video industry bosses are very much to blame for the rise in piracy in my opinion. They were the ones that started region locking films so that the average person couldn't say go on holiday from say the UK to the USA and buy a film that would work when they brought it back. People got annoyed.

Then they found ways around this, region free hacks would appear on the net etc

My father brought a CD that wouldn't play in his CD player on his Hi-fi. It was due to copy protection, it played fine on all mine. I made him a copy without the protection and it played on his player fine.

It's this sort of thing that makes piracy so much worse than it would have been. A whole new generation has grown up, working out how to get their PC games playing without ridiculously long load times, and without the CD/DVD being required in the drive at all times. Hence someone buys the game legally,has to have the game in their drive all the time and it takes 3 mins to start.

Someone else downloads an illegal copy, and it starts in 20 secs and no need to have it in the drive.

People like me, used to buy the games legally and download the illegal cracks etc so that we could play without the restrictions. This of course led us to sites where many other games were available. Which meant that unless it was one of a few games I know I would like, I would download a pirated copy first, see if I liked it for more than an hour or so and if I did I brought it. Often I didn't hence deleted it and never played it again.

Of course at the same time you will get that element of people that do like it and don't pay for it.



I got £250 worth of films when I brought my Galaxy Tablet from Samsung Movies. If I read their T&C correctly, I can watch them on my tablet and my PC, If I upgrade my PC or change Tablets, unless I misunderstand, I've lost those movies. I brought various movies with the vouchers, I then downloaded the same movies illegally, so that I could actually watch them on whatever device I choose, whether it's my PS3 or whatever. If I buy a film, it should be up to me what I watch it on and it's this sort of stupidity that encourages piracy. From the film companies figures, another £250 worth of movies has been pirated, but I've already brought them, I'm not buying them again just so I can watch them on my big TV, hence they haven't lost out a single penny.


The figures quoted by various authorities are meaningless drivel.

If you have a piece of music/software or whatever that's been pirated illegally 2000 times, chances are you've lost about 10 sales if that. Also there's a fair chance if it's a band, you've gained far more than you've lost in people going to see you live etc or friends listening to the music and getting hooked. If it's software same thing applies, people get used to your software, they tell friends about it, friends buy it etc.

Or to put it another way, a freetard with say £$100 a month disposable income, might download every sample package known to mankind, but if he/she couldn't download them, they would not be able to buy them as they simply do not have the money available. I'm not saying this makes it right, I'm, simply saying that due to this, the amount of lost revenue quoted around by the big companies is a meaningless number, its only a real number if everyone that downloaded illegally would have brought it if they couldn't, and for most that would be an impossibility.

Back in the days of me owning an Atari ST, I had no end of pirated games. I also spent every single penny I had on various games and other software for it as did my best friend. Bit like the LP scenario, he would buy some, I would buy some, his friends would buy some, and we would share. The argument that various companies lost ouot due to me having loads of pirated games doesn't add up for the simple fact that I had no more money to buy them with.

What it did do was get me hooked on certain games series that then meant in months down the line I spent my money on their newer titles, so long term, they gained from me.

I was given a pirated copy of pro24 on my ST. Never heard of it, would never have brought it. Over the years Steinberg has got quite a few thousand pounds stemming from that piece of pirated software, only a couple of month ago I brought Cubase 6 and if anyone ever asks me for a recommendation, it's the one I always point them to.

As a mature adult I buy things I want to use, although if I'm not sure whether something fits my needs, I will still download a pirate version first to check it does what it claims to, then I do buy a proper version if it does. If I couldn't do that (or the company didn't offer a fully working demo) they would simply never get my money.

I think the music and Film industry is kidding themselves a bit. When I was a teenager, there was nothing to spend money on except cigarettes (which were dirt cheap) singles and LP's, beer and space invaders.

Now you have teenagers that want to buy the latest phones, Ipods, Ipads, Xbox/PS3 etc, then there's the price of games etc for those machines. End result, far far far far less money available for films and music. Hence the industry suffers.

When I was young, we wanted the latest blood red vinyl, picture disc or special LP/single sleeve, when I started buying software I got huge printed manuals that were very good and very useful. A fair few times in my younger days, I would buy a piece of software that I was a bit undecided about (would have probably used pirate version) just so that I had the full printed manual that I could refer to.

Another point of view is that I would often buy a single and then the LP and more often than not, tracks that I didn't like initially became life long favourites. Now being able to download individual tracks, many people miss out on the experience of learning to appreciate songs they don' like first time, hence I suspect many people just pay to download the 1 or 2 tracks they like.

I've downloaded tons of stuff over the years, I also buy tons of stuff too. While some people do completely freeload, most adults I know fall into the same category as me.

Even today I'm just about to part with £400 for NI Komplete 8 and that's entirely due to the cut down version that came with my NI Audio 6 interface, if I hadn't tried it first, they wouldn't have got my money

I sympathise greatly with small software companies seeing their stuff pirated everywhere, but I do honestly believe that chances are they make more long term due to advertisement via word of mouth etc than they loose.

I've been wrong before though.

Ooer, I've written an essay, time to go

best

Joe
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Post by charlie67 »

Brilliant and accurate picture of piracy. Well done Joe.
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Post by Sharp »

Hi Kevin.
I'll give you a simple example of how this could have turn bad.

Some kid posts a cover version of him / herself playing a Lada Gaga song on a keyboard they got from their parents. YouTube gets taken down because it's illegal to perform another artists song in public without paying royalties.

You know this to be called IMRO here in Ireland.

It's not about stopping piracy, it's about censoring the Net and greed.

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Post by Sharp »

Excellent post Ojustaboo.

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Post by cello »

Three fantastic posts above from tpantano, Kevin and Ojustaboo.

Well worth reading each of them very carefully!

tpantano and Kevin are not talking about exactly the same thing but they demonstrate very well how closely the two issues are related and how (seemingly) contrary they are.

Then we have brilliant Ojustaboo's post, which I think reflects the reality of the situation. Adobe gets £1,000s of pounds from me when they have a new release of creative studio - but only because a had a hookie version of photoshop (v2.1 - that shows how long ago that was!).

So, in the real world it appears there is a positive link between openness and availability of 'stuff' - be it music, books, software, films, etc - to revenue generation. It's just the relevant industries spent way too long in their ivory towers before embracing technology and now they think criminalisation and litigation is the answer.

Let's say I downloaded a hookie copy of Lady Gaga. I get cought, I get criminalised. Am I going to pay £60 or more to go and see her on tour? Erm, no! Just as I wouldn't go to her tour without having heard something of hers first. I remember reading an article many moons ago that some in the music industry thought they should no longer charge for music, just rely on licensing (ie TV broadcast, pub entertainment, nightclubs, etc) and tour/merchandising. At the time I thought it was crazy - no encouragement for creativity - disaster! On reflection, the writer perhaps had more foresight than it appeared.

Look at viral marketing - totally relies on free distribution. Does anyone remember the MasterCard series on television ads? Well, the true marketing success was the viral marketing versions they released that could never be broadcast because were way too 'adult'... but now everyone at some point has cracked a joke about 'and for everything else there's MasterCard'!

The industry bodies have to work together and work out how to make that relationship between availability and revenue generation work for them, whilst using viral-orientated marketing to promote offline business.

Regrettably I don't have a clue how to achieve that. If I did I would become very rich, very quickly! :lol:
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Post by BasariStudios »

2001-Somehow i got to a Cracked version of Reaktor 1 or something, it was
unstable and i bought Dynamo, Reaktor 2 came out and i bought it right
away for like 500$...right after that i bought Kontakt 2. Today i own Legally
EVERY single Instrument NI has including Komplete.

2006-i got to a cracked Copy of Collossus, it was Unstable and i bought the
Legal version of it at Sam Ash for 519$ at the time, soon after i upgraded to
Goliath...today i own Legally 9 EWQL products, each approx. 450$.

2009-i had a crack of Nomad Factory's Blue Tubes, soon after i bought ESS
and today 1 month ago i bought EVERY single Nomad Factory plug in, the
Integral Studio Pack, 100% of Nomad Factory's plugins.

2005-My cousin bought Korg's Legacy Collection, installed it on my comp
too but i had no controller, 3 months later i bought Korgs Legacy Collection
with the MS20 controller for 600$ at Sam Ash.

2009-downloaded first Season of StarTrek the Next Generation for free, the
quality wasnt Great, soon after i bought all 6 Seasons on DVD for 250$.

I want now someone to explain to me how much Revenue this companies
have lost only due to ME.

Thanks
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Post by miden »

Sharp wrote:Excellent post Ojustaboo.

Regards
Sharp.
I agree with James' comment 100%.

In my view, this is about the BEST post anywhere, not just this forum, I have read on this subject.

I reckon this could be posted everywhere and in every forum this discussion is taking place on.

Dennis
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Post by MoonMusic »

Sometimes those copyright protections they put in place hurt companies more than it helps....Good example is the Legacy collection....I bought it within the first hour I found out it no longer required a dongle to run it....moon
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