Comments & frustrations.

[centauramp]

I've had a Pa1X Pro Elite for a year and 1/2. I have found many limitations on it from the fact you have only 2 effects to apply to the upper 124&4 . The digital organ has no vibrato like a real B3 The rotory sound is not as good as my old roland. The acctual wave forms that are available are very limmited. My Xp80 from 1995 had many more wave forms to create sound from. No EQ on the sounds just master EQ's. the Rhodes piano wave's don't cut it I took a 1973 Rhodes sample and impotred it to my internal 32MB Memory. It took a lot of refinning but it sounds just like my old Rhodes 73 . In short I'm hopping that the Pa3XPro is going to solve a lot of these short commings. The extra Memory for internal sounds should help a lot along with the 8 effects sections. Can't wait to try one out. I'm in the LA area I so far no dealers I know intend on bringing 1 in unless you pay for it in adavance. Thanks For listening Bob Spurlock

[karmathanever]

I've had a Pa1X Pro Elite for a year and 1/2. I have found many limitations on it from the fact you have only 2 effects to apply to the upper 124&4 . The digital organ has no vibrato like a real B3 The rotory sound is not as good as my old roland. The acctual wave forms that are available are very limmited. My Xp80 from 1995 had many more wave forms to create sound from. No EQ on the sounds just master EQ's. the Rhodes piano wave's don't cut it

What made you buy it
(serious question - I am not trying to be funny)

[centauramp]

I used to have a trio I was the keyboard player obviously, My main instruments were Rhodes 73 with the suitcase electronics installed, which gave me volume, bass & treble along with a fantastic what Rhodes called a Vibrato with speed and depth control. It was actually a automatic panning control with speed and depth. With the tone and vibrato controls I could adjust it to sound like I wanted it to Mellow for jazz, flat for funky and overdrive. Or bright for a dyno my Rhodes sound. I could even make it sound like vibes with the right amount of vibrato speed and depth. Being that I was the the only musician besides a drummer I cut loose the pick up coils on the bottom octive & half and ran them thru a circuit to dump all the high's, it made a great punchy percussive bass with it's on volume control. A switch would allow me to extend the lower range for a full keyboard. I also cut the sustain bar on the bass part so you could walk the bass while using sustain on the right hand. Also had a phase shifter wired in for that effect. Then into a stereo amp with reverb for a great sound with a lot of depth. Also I used a Clavinet with a phaser on it and tone controls, the pa1xpro clavinet sounds like a toy, very thin sounding like something off a 100 dollar yamaha or casio keyboard. My third instrument was a farfisa pro form the early 70's which I ran thru a leslie speaker I built myself with 100 watts and tone & reverb for upper and lower rotors. I used electronics crossover to separate the frequencies. PS: I also built a distortion circuit and that along with a wha pedal.

Now why I bought the PA1Xpro The styles and backing track looked good with all the fills and intros and endings ect. The digital organ looked interesting and harmonies with the TC Helicon even though they don't tell you it was in sample mode only. Another $300.00 to activate it. I liked the direct outs 1&2 to separate things like Bass guitar running thru a bass amp. Strings running thru smaller powered speakers for separation. The lyrics and chords on the screen while your playing expanded to a larger monitor if you what. The MP3 recorder works good, you can use it to play with pre recorder backing tracks like karaoke files or just pre recorded midi arrangements as MP3 files that free's up a lot of polyphony for real time play. The real surprise came when I discovered how little it offered in the form of wave file samples to create your own sounds, along with the fact that 2 of the 4 effects are dedicated to the backing tracks. Now I bought it brand new for $1000.00 it's was the last of the production so it is the elite model. Even the cd rom player is actually a DVD Rom player and can hold a lot of songs. The other problem is even though you have 2 banks of 16MB memory a sampled sound can not cross over from the 1st memory card to the 2nd. So recoding or importing another sample is not easy because you can not tell it where to store that sample, so if you have memory left over on the 1 st board the 2nd sample will try to load onto both boards. Of coarse it won't play right. I been on the horn with tech support, they don't have a clue. The only answer is to record blank space for just the right amount of time to fill up the 1 st board than the second board will be used for the next sound. Of coarse with 32 MB of sample's the boot up time is about 4 minuets. The other draw back is I don't know why they bothered to put in the 2 extra expansion slots if they were not going to produce a lot of sample sound expansion boards available for sale. Roland had dozens. There should have been a way for the sounds on the samples you record to be transferred to the expansion boards. even if it required a prom burner.
I've said a lot here thanks for listening, I'm really hoping the PA3XPro will do what I think it can do. Now that I know the operating system I can't wait to try one out. As soon as I do you can bet I'll put my findings on the forum. Best of luck to everybody that gets the PA3XPro Bob Spurlock

[jazzmammal]

Totally agree with your critique Bob. I'm an old, long time B3 player who also used to have a Stage 73 and an Arp back in the day. Only took me and a gorilla a solid hour to completely fill up a Dodge 3/4 ton van with the B3, two leslies and a ton of other crap. Now I live in Redondo and do a bunch of casual gigs around the area and no way can I justify paying upwards of 4 G's for a new board like that Pa3X for what amounts to $100-$150 gigs. I use a Roland Vk 760 for the B3 and a couple good basic EP's for when I work in a full band but it's not a complete synth like the Korg is. No flutes, horns, and all the other useful soundbanks. And yeah, the clav sucks. Sometimes if I feel I must have Rolands B3 (it's pretty good) I'll double rack but what a pia that is. When I double rack it does sound sweet though. Korgs basic B3 is just that basic but it works. I do like the Jimmy and the Dark Jazz patches. You can layer them using the upper key tracks and that fattens it up a bit. The real reason I bought the Korg is the rhythm section of the styles. Basic drums, bass and guitar parts for classic R & R, Motown, jazz etc are pretty good for a duo gig with a sax player or a trio with sax and guitar. If you can afford it I'm sure the new one is awesome but if you're really considering that, don't overlook the new Yamaha Tyros or the Ketron.
For me it's a bang for the buck thing. I've got every kind of software synth you can name in my home studio with many different soft B3's and Rhodes to play with so I don't miss it that much on a gig any more but I certainly understand where you're coming from. I work with a bunch of real pros in different settings and every time I bitch about the sound I'm getting they all say what are you talking about, that B3/Rhodes/synth/whatever sounds great.
What does a reed man really know about a B3 anyway? It's all in your head man.....:>)

Bob

[kjeld]

As karmathanever say "What made you buy it"
Dont waste ouer time

[Wings]

As karmathanever say "What made you buy it"
Dont waste ouer time

Kjeld...venting your findings (both negative and positive) is NOT wasting anybodys time...reading what you don't want to read IS wasting time.

Pointless comment!

[miden]

+1 Wings.

@ kjeld - Pete (Karma) was asking a genuine question as he was interested in the reasons why. It was not a "put-down" question like your post, which was totally redundant.

[centauramp]

For those of you keep harping on why did you buy it. I had only owned work stations in the past. I wanted to try out an arranger, the outcome looked like it had potential. Not knowing the operating system I could not sit a Guitar Center for days and days trying to learn it. So for $1000.00 I got got a brand new one with warranty, and it was the Elite model. I could have sold it 4 months after I bought it for easy $1500.00 or better on Ebay. I should have bought the Korg arranger secrets. It would have made learning the operating system faster.
Where else could you get a Cadillac even if it was the older model dealers demo with a few miles on it for 1/3 the original price with full warranty. You would have to be nut's to pass up a deal like that.
In any event I'm sure once I get my hands on a PA3X Pro I'll probably mortgage my house to get one. Those french demo's have really got me licking my chops. Can't wait to see more done in english. I only wish the would they make the Onwers manual available as a PDF file. I would be able to really tell from that if the structure will allow me to do what I want. PS: Hope my wife does not read this, mortgage the house oops
Best to all Bob Spurlock

[Charley Brown]

There definitely will be some frustration along the learning curve for new users. And because of this there is a tendency to focus on what it cannot do while being unaware of what it can do. Such is the case when switching from a Work Station to an Arranger. Don’t expect your new girlfriend to have the same qualities as your old one. Anyway, why aren’t you still with her?

If you read thru the comments posted over the years on the Forum you will begin to notice a theme from those who recently purchased a Pa1x or Pa2x. Most people who are unfamiliar become frustrated and complain that it doesn’t do or sound like there old keyboard. We have heard it many times, however as users become more familiar with the capabilities of the Pa1x they invariable find many fantastic sounds and become amazed as they discover it’s true potential.

In order to do a fair comparison you should be equally familiar with each keyboard. If you had first used an Arranger you would likely be disappointed with a Work Station. Pete and other members have said many times that each has unique advantages. It may be too much to expect any single keyboard to give you everything. For me, the Pa1x or Pa2x comes close. While on the job, I love the instantaneous recall of any Song Style Arrangement that I have worked out and place in the Song book. No fiddling around or dead stage presents. I simply hit “Next” in my “Set List” and bingo. I also have each Song numbered in case I need to recall a Song out of sequence instantaneously. It is fantastic for live performance

I’ve had my Pa1x for three years and I’m still discovering new things. If you take the time to begin to learn its potential I guarantee you will be hooked, like the rest of us. .

[karmathanever]

If you take the time to begin to learn its potential I guarantee you will be hooked, like the rest of us. .

If you are like me, I buy new technology, switch it on, play with all the buttons and lights, get frustrated and then eventually read the manual. I think it is almost human nature for all of us muso-techos. I must admit that Korg have always put a good "Quick start guide" in their manuals. Usually the first 70-80 pages of the User Guide. I notice the PA3X QSG is 100 pages !!! Rob's Arranger Secrets DVDs were a great supplement to the QSG and took you a lot further into the PA improving your understanding of all the terminology along the way.

Most of today's music technology has a learning curve. I am new to the M3 but am using the manuals and tutorials extensively.

If you are hooked on the PA1X and decide to stay with it but still would like more, consider the M3 - they are getting cheaper by the minute (thanks to the Kronos) and will absolutely blow you away - it can easily be MIDI'd up to the PA1 which you can use as a Master controller or simply use the UPPER1 (2 or 3) to drive he M3 sounds. I have the M3M (module) and it is awesome.
But you do need to take some time understanding the Karma technology. If you love the sounds on your PA1, the M3 expanded sounds will leave you breathless.

WHOOPS - SORRY got right off track here.....

Cheers

Pete