Analog mixer schematic hack - Properly Routing KP3 effects

[guila61]

-EDITED- - Originally titled KP3 stereo to analog mixer FX SEND mono

My problem seems to be with my mixer's schematics: the factory default settings the mixer works in - how it deals with the audio coming in from the regular channels. More specifically, the order in which this signal flows through the knobs (level, pan, fx, eq).

I've heard from a friend that I need to open up the entire mixer and do some soldering in order to alter how my mixer prioritizes the signal.

Currently, in its basic form, it appears to me that the signal flow of a single channel input is processed in the following order; (1) the Level knob is the first to be in control; (2) then it passes through the EQ knobs; (3) then FX Send; (4) then Pan.

My friend said I need to solder some points and alter this order above, make it so FX Send is the first, then Level, then EQ and Pan after. Something like that. What matters is that he said I need to open it and kidda 'hack' it to my specifications. He said this is common, his Mackie mixer has instructions on how to do stuff like that in the manual. My manual did not.

Basically one thing you seem to be forgetting is that my mixer is combining my KP3 effects back with the original sound - For example, I end up with an LPF effect MIXED WITH the original stuff the LPF was suppose to remove in the first place! Now the trick seems to lie on how my mixer is dealing with the signal... if I were to prioritize FX Send knob over the Level knob, and kidda turn the FX Send into a Level #1, I think I might fix this. I'm still confused in how to proceed. I wanted to learn more about it... I'ma also gona try researching 'mixer schematics' & try posting this on a Behringer/analog mixer forum.

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ORIGINAL MSG
Good day all - I need help figuring out how the heck to get a 1/4'' mono FX SEND output feature on my mixer working properly with stereo equipment, preferably the KP3.

I've acquired a Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer (see pic below) - it has a single mono output called FX SEND (the third analog hole from left to right at the top after the 2 mic in's).

This FX SEND appears to be ideal for hooking up multiple audio into the mixer, then you can pick and choose combinations of audio to send to the KP3. For example, say I have the audio from my computer's along w/ my Korg EMX-1 going into the mixer. Then in this case, the FX SEND feature allows me to send (a) only my computer's audio to the KP3; (b) only the EMX-1 audio to the KP3; (c) both. It works through an FX SEND knob for each channel. I think yall get the point.

The problem is that this FX SEND output in this mixer isn't a L/R signal - at least not to the KP3! It is a single 1/4'' mono output ---- As you all know, the KP3 has a L/R input, so my problem is that only one side of the audio is going into the KP3.

I am trying to use a 1/4'' Stereo headphone adapter but I'm still only getting one side sent out.

I definitely don't want to switch mixer, I just got this one, and I like it. The KP3 is working like a charm and the FX SEND is working, but the input is one-sided.

Would this 1/4" mono to dual RCA adapter capture and split the sound?

What have the rest of you been doing if you're using your KP3 w/ an analog mixer?

Thanks so much
-gui

[decrepitude]

Would this 1/4" mono to dual RCA adapter capture and split the sound?

Yes.

But this would be easier:
(Audio Y-Cable, Mono 1/4" Male to Dual RCA Male,)

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/252419.html

[guila61]

I got the new wires but I still don't get it. So to repeat, in this case, I'm using the EMX1 and the KP3, connected with the Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer pictured above.

I hope yall get what I'm trying to say. Basically, if I connect my EMX1 directly to the KP3, it works like it should but I sacrifice not being able to use the KP3 with other sounds coming into the mixer. On the other hand, if I use my mixer's FX out feature, I'm able to use the KP3 with other sounds coming into the mixer (I can select combinations of channels to apply effects to), but when the effect is returned, instead of hearing a completely reprocessed sound, what I get is my original sound mixed with the processed effect. The result sounds like the KP3 isn't being used properly - the mixer is keeping the original sound and mixing it with the effects, rather than leaving the original sound out and outputting only the FX channel. Isn't that why the KP3 has the FX DEPTH knob, so if you want to keep some of the original sound mixed with the effect, you can, and if you don't want to, you set the knob to 100%...? So why is my Behringer 802 mixer FX SEND function only allowing me to mix effects to the original sound rather than getting rid of the original sound altogether? Is this just the wrong mixer? Can anybody please help me find one that suits the EMX1 and the KP3 while allowing me to select different combinations of channels to apply effects to. I guess one analog mixer with a FX SEND feature that works with the KP3 configured to 'direct'.

Gee, I hope I didn't drive anyone crazy
thanks
-gui

[C1]

I have a Behringer eurorack which is very similar although older. You may want to try adjusting the FX knob on the mixer itself. It sounds like you want FX all the way up on the mixer and you can then adjust the level on the KP3 as desired.

I'll play with my mixer/KP3 combo this weekend and report back my results. Let me know if this works for you - I'm somewhat of a newbie when it comes to the technical stuff, but this seems right from how I remember working with my mixer.

[guila61]

Let me clarify some more -- thanks in advance...

I'm still learning the KP3, but for example, I already know that the function of the Low Pass Filter (LPF) on the KP3 is to remove the low frequencies, or the base, drum, blah blah blah....

Well, my complain is that when I use my KP3 through the FX SEND function on my mixer, my mixer's setup is such that what I ultimately end up hearing is a combined signal from the EMX1 (the original sound that I wanted to apply the LPF effect to) and the LPF effect --- which isn't correct because the LPF itself is the removal of specific frequencies, so why would I want my mixer to combine this effect back with the original sound? Basically I end up with an LPF effect MIXED WITH the original stuff the LPF was originally suppose to remove in the first place!

My issue isn't with my KP3, but with my mixer - I'm having a hard time understanding how the setup of effects units (like the KP3) to an analog mixer such as mine should be done when I want to hear only the left over effect/processed signal -- my mixer is combining my FX OUT back with the original sound. Is this normal? What point am I missing/wat the heck is this mixer missing?!

Heehhh... thanks!

Sorry, but if comprehension is difficult please let me know

cheerz

[C1]

Well, I played with my setup this weekend and here are the results of my experiment - your mileage may vary. Check the signal flow doc that comes with the mixer as well as the mixer documentation - I found mine to be pretty cryptic but it pointed me in the right direction.

Setup:
Behringer UB1002 (10 inputs instead of 8, no Aux In)
EA-1 - part 1 and 2 to separate lines in to mixer
ER-1 - Part 1 and 2 combined to one line in
KP-3 - FX send to KP-3, KP3 out to line in (no Aux Return for the 1002)

The FX knobs on the mixer controlled how much signal went into the KP3 - I could have the knob at 0 and the sound would be unaffected by the KP3 all the way up to the max - 100% FX. I could apply the FX to just one line in or many by using the mixer FX knobs. The signal played as normal until I touched the KP3 and then I heard the affected signal instead. It took quite a bit of fiddling with the FX and volume knobs to get the right mix.

In your set up, I would try FX send to KP-3, KP-3 to Aux Return, Mixer FX knob (maroon) on the EMX-1 line(s) in to 100% (adjust to taste) Also check the Aux Return knob on the far right - start at 12 O'clock and adjust from there. Hopefully, that gets you where you want to be! Hopefully, someone out there has an 802 and can offer more comprehensive advice...

[guila61]

C1, thanks for your help, but we're still not in the same page, haah..!

I think what we're getting to is this: My problem seems to be with my mixer's schematics: the factory default settings the mixer works in - how it deals with the audio coming in from the regular channels. More specifically, the order in which this signal flows through the knobs (level, pan, fx, eq).

I've heard from a friend that I need to open up the entire mixer and do some soldering in order to alter how my mixer prioritizes the signal.

Currently, in its basic form, it appears to me that the signal flow of a single channel input is processed in the following order; (1) the Level knob is the first to be in control; (2) then it passes through the EQ knobs; (3) then FX Send; (4) then Pan.

My friend said I need to solder some points and alter this order above, make it so FX Send is the first, then Level, then EQ and Pan after. Something like that. What matters is that he said I need to open it and kidda 'hack' it to my specifications. He said this is common, his Mackie mixer has instructions on how to do stuff like that in the manual. My manual did not.

Basically one thing you seem to be forgetting is that my mixer is combining my KP3 effects back with the original sound - For example, I end up with an LPF effect MIXED WITH the original stuff the LPF was suppose to remove in the first place! Now the trick seems to lie on how my mixer is dealing with the signal... if I were to prioritize FX Send knob over the Level knob, and kidda turn the FX Send into a Level #1, I think I might fix this. I'm still confused in how to proceed. I wanted to learn more about it... I'ma also gona try researching 'mixer schematics' & try posting this on a Behringer/analog mixer forum.

Thanx!!

-gui