trade Kronos X73 for Kronos X61 or new Kronos 61

scottkahn · Post by **scottkahn** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:04 pm

If anyone in the NY metro area is interested in a mint condition Kronos X 73 with the full 3.0 update, I need to downsize into the 61-key version. It's too heavy to move back and forth from my studio to home on a daily/weekly basis. If you have one in mint condition and want to trade that plus some cash, I'd make the trade...

I would consider selling it and buying a new 61, but I don't have the original box, so I'm staying local with this...

PM if any of this is of interest.

njkronos · Post by **njkronos** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:35 am

Sorry I can't help you directly Scott. Awhile ago, my bad back dictated that I get a Casio PX-5s to take care of the extra keys that I need, along with getting the K2 61.

I'm in NJ and I'll lookout for anyone in my network who has the X61 or K2 61 (would a K1 61 work?). Most likely a longshot, but I'll put the word out nonetheless, good luck!

scottkahn · Post by **scottkahn** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:52 am

Thanks NJ. No, first generation wouldn't work. This is in mint condition...

The Casio is nice -- I reviewed that for MusicPlayers.com. I hated the user interface, personally, but it has some very cool, inspiring sounds. And... nothing that light weight has a keyboard that feels that good.

njkronos · Post by **njkronos** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:33 am

Gotcha, no K1 and mint noted, thx Scott!

Yeah, the interface takes getting used to on the PX-5s. They have a strange system in that you cannot call Tones (roughly analogous to K programs) directly. You can only call Stage Settings (roughly analogous to K combis) memory locations directly. Hence it's always in Stage Setting mode as there is no Tone mode.

So if there's a tone that you like, you have to create a stage setting for that tone for quick live access. And you end up writing over a preset stage setting to do that.

But the weight... that cures all ills for me. For a full 88 weighted board, it's insanely light! The 3 sensor keys with great action are a strong compliment for the K's SGX2 and EP1 pianos. And as you mentioned, some of the PXs sounds are real solid.

Perhaps the newer Casios have different interfaces. I know that they added a color display to the newer models that have superseded the PX-5s.

scottkahn · Post by **scottkahn** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:10 pm

As I noted in my review, what they really just need is a modern software editor. The existing one reminds me of decades-old DOS applications :-p.

I'm hoping to see the next generation of their synths at NAMM (though I don't have any official report of this), taking their HEX-whatever sound engine and providing some nice realtime controls over it for easy programability.

I'm reviewing the StudioLogic SL88 Grand right now -- it's one of the best designed MIDI controllers on the market today, if you want to control hardware, like a rack full of sound modules. It's heavier than the Casio, but nearly as compact, and the piano keyboard is even better, falling somewhere in between the Privia and the Kronos X 73, which is extraordinary.

njkronos · Post by **njkronos** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Very cool, thx Scott!

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:49 am

Perhaps the newer Casios have different interfaces. I know that they added a color display to the newer models that have superseded the PX-5s.

Actually I keep reading statements by Casio, that the later Privias such as the PX560, are not replacements for the 5S, as none of them have the number of RT controllers, among other differences. And after trying them out, I believe this, which has me think that sometime in the not so distant future that Casio will release an updated controller/stage piano for the 5S with a color display.
I agree that the Studiologic SL88 is a magnificent keyboard and controller, however it is almost twice the weight of a 5S, and heavier than the Kronos 61 itself, which is where, when you weight it all up, (pardon the pun

, makes the 5S so attractive as a half decent stage piano/synth.

I recently added a PX5S as a portable controller for my Kronos 2-61 for similar reasons. I find the PX keybed to be excellent for the weight.

njkronos · Post by **njkronos** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:50 am

Great points DeltaJockey...

The value proposition given the 5s weight and price is hard to beat. While I wish it had a better interface for the sound selection and programming, I certainly can vouch for the RT controls (in addition to the great sound and keyboard feel/action). I use them frequently for filter effects and sub-mixing Tones (Casio's "programs") within a Stage Setting (Casio's "mini-combi")... very quick and easy, well-suited to live performance!

Casio could stand to market the successor to the 5s a little better IMHO. I'm not sure if they are delineating their home keyboards from their pro boards enough.

That seemed to be the case with their XW-P1 synth marketing in the USA. Reps from music retailers that I spoke with mentioned the low sales and lack of promotional support from Casio on the XWs. Public perception I believe stereotypes Casio products as consumer-only for home use. Which is unfortunate since they make really great niche pro products such as the 5s and the XW synths.

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:50 am

Yes, I had never shown much interest in Casio due to their "reputation" as a home keyboard manufacturer, but was quite surprised at the quality for price of the 5S. I bought it primarily for it's keybed, and liking the piano as a minimum acceptable sound if not using the Kronos, but was really surprised at what lay further inside. I'm not fussed about the interface display as I tend to mainly use it as a controller, with some preset stage-settings. I have to admit, that I prefer the 5S piano to the Roland Supernatural piano, which I just can't seem to adjust to my liking. The SN Pianos, compared to the Kronos pianos, to me sound quite compressed without any compressor evident. The 5S is more like the Kronos pianos in this regard. (I do reference my piano taste relative to Kronos pianos

I think too, putting some other things in perspective, we all want more and more in our products, but often this comes at a power consumption price. Yes, the 5S has a small mono display, but as a controller keyboard, I don't want anything too power hungry. I'm surprised that being also battery powered that it doesn't power from USB. I was using my Nektar LX88 on the Kronos 61 as a controller, because one of it's minimalist attractions is that the Kronos will power it, and it is only 8kg. But the 5S is only a few Kg heavier, so for a weighted keybed was a great replacement, and to be USB powered would be icing on the cake.

I agree, if Casio were more assertive toward the professional market they could gain some more standing in their pro gear. I think it's what you get for the price which makes it attractive.

njkronos · Post by **njkronos** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:35 am

I agree!

scottkahn · Post by **scottkahn** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:24 pm

Ironically, you guys are showing your age with the Casio amateur vs. pro thing :-p lol... and I remember that as well! We grew up in that era, yet I had a Casio CZ-1000 which was a great alternative to a DX-7 at the time. I still remember the Casio arranger keyboards in dept. stores, though...

Today, younger musicians don't really have an opinion of Casio, and they did a good job branding Privia as something separate. They do need to up their game on the synths, though, as they are sort of a confusing pair of keyboards, where one good, new synth with all the capabilities would be much better. Then, of course, throw in the Privia's piano sound and give it 61 or more keys... a new editor... :-p

Scott

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:22 am

You're right Scott,
I think we are a bunch of "wise"? old music technologists! Yes the CZ-1000 is a synth I respected, but didn't have the opportunity to own. I remember the full color ads in the hard copies of Keyboard magazines of the 80's, and did regard that synth very differently to the "color lighting keys" type Casios

Embarrassingly a Casio SK1 was my first sampling keyboard

To be fair, Yamaha always had their Portasound keyboards too! But Yamaha continued to differentiate their consumer and pro gear more overtly.

On the topic of showing our age,
I often find myself disappointed that younger people (a generalization..no disrespect here

) don't see the magic in the more recent technology like the older generation, as they expect nowadays that anything is achievable. Having struggled with trying to keep my first analog synths in tune, and trying to keep them in a stable temperature environment, and stretching my imagination that the patch I just created really does sound like a violin! I still get excited about how far we've come and how realistic or enveloping our sonic rendering has become.

Anybody else our age who doesn't share that excitement hasn't gone through the synth pioneering days to appreciate the tedium just to lay down multiple tracks, especially before 1982BM...(before MIDI).

Chris

scottkahn · Post by **scottkahn** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:53 pm

A friend of mine just recently broke out his Tascam Portastudio 4-track and "new old stock" cassette to try and recording something "old school."

I loved the recent Genesis 3 Sides Live Blu-Ray reissue -- the behind the scenes footage showed Tony Banks with his Prophet opened up, connected to an oscilloscope, for a pre-show tune-up. Yes, things have come a long way

.

I think virtual instruments -- great, and I love using them -- give young musicians too many choices. My advice to younger artists reading this thread: Try to focus on no more than (3) synths, either hardware or virtual, for a month or two. LEARN how it works, really explore what you can create with it... try to make the same sound on each, and discover how what seems the same ends up sounding so dissimilar because of different filters, waveforms, etc...

Have you seen any of the modern arranger keyboards from Korg, Roland, or Yamaha? I haven't worked on them, and they are not "in vogue" here in the USA, but they sell quite well globally. They are a zillion years beyond those classics we enjoyed playing with back in "the good old days" which today means "the 80s"

.

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:52 am

Ah...the reminiscing!
I remember buying a Juno 6 and pulling it apart and making it 6 channel multitimbral...before the invention of MIDI.
I created my own digital bus system to communicate between keyboards, sequencers and my 8 bit software. I called it PMIACS. A very technical name because I was a technical person

It stood for Polyphonic Music Interpreter and Control System. It never went anywhere though, and then MIDI came out.
I must have bought hundreds of pots and LED's over those years, as step sequencing was all the rage, along with analog mixing and recording

I've had a passing interest in the arrangers. They're in the shops here in Australia but I don't come across much in the wild. Possibly not all that popular here either, though I'm not an authority on the subject. There seems to be quite few on here who use them though.

I think there's been much discussion on the forum about having too much choice and complexity in gear, and it distracting the creativity. I certainly am aware of that personally with my creativity. My most creative times to date, were when I had the most limited resources. These days I have my most productive times sitting down exploring with just my two hands in front of the piano, and the DAW is turned off until I have something I can play live and ready to work with.

Chris

scottkahn · Post by **scottkahn** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:04 pm

Funny, all of my synths are in my studio, but I have an acoustic piano in my home... whenever I write something at that piano, it's just always so different than what I compose in my studio, even on my Kronos with a grand piano sound.

I'm trying to spend more time really LEARNING my gear now. Too many choices does indeed dilute things...

Very cool about your pre-MIDI mods!!!