Personal purchase show-stoppers

[karmathanever]

Hi guys

Firstly, this is not another PA5x "hate" post. I am sure I'll end up with one but was just thinking about "why I couldn't actually use one right now.

Here’s my personal simple take on planning for my new arranger keyboard change (upgrade)

Live performance: I have to be able to perform all my music comfortably
Recording and music development: I need the keys to integrate with my DAW and/or have good recording options.
Development: I have to be able to create/modify styles and sounds and sequencing
Quality: Sound/style quality has to be the best

So these are very high-level requirements.

The odd thing is that one unavailable feature in a new model can be a complete show-stopper. One such feature is the EC5 for me. I’ve used the EC5 for over 21 years since my i3. Now, I don’t need an EC5 as such on a PA5x BUT I do need an equivalent. OK, so we are suggesting a MIDI pedal like the Behringer FCB1010 (which I own). The FCB is only a partial solution – let’s take a small simple example:-

If you want to activate certain style elements from a MIDI pedal then you simply use the CONTROL CHANNEL PCs as per the manual – all works perfectly, BUT if you want to do anything that is NOT in that limited list in the manual, then you need to know the MIDI details required – of course, Korg seem to think that a MIDI implementation manual is never needed – hence we’ve never had one since the PA series started.
As an example, suppose you want a FCB (MIDI) pedal to activate “VARIATION-UP” – EC5 does it beautifully but there’s no MIDI information relating to that.
Is this just a silly requirement? Well, not for me – this is one area that would actually prevent me from being able to comfortably use a PA5x as a replacement to my PA4x.

Do you guys have any “show-stopper” issues?

If someone gave me the money to buy a PA5x-76 I still could not use it with my band for the reason above and a few more… also, I would not have the space to own both for much more than a short conversion period.

As much as I don’t like the Genos (or Tyros’s) as a professional arranger, it also has significantly more show-stopper issues for me personally.

I HAVE to wait to hopefully see if there are solutions to my personal issues (there aren’t many!!!)

In the meantime, I thank you for all your feedback – seriously.

Pete

[D575]

Removed original post as a workaround has been pointed out...

My observations from this original post have been updated here for clarity in a later post below
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 3d33eb538f

[Sharp]

As an example, suppose you want a FCB (MIDI) pedal to activate “VARIATION-UP” – EC5 does it beautifully but there’s no MIDI information relating to that.
Is this just a silly requirement? Well, not for me – this is one area that would actually prevent me from being able to comfortably use a PA5x as a replacement to my PA4x.

Assuming I'm right when I don't even have a Pa5X to verify this.....

If the Midi Chart doesn't say “Variation Up” then that doesn't mean it can't do it. The language in the manual refers user assignable functions, so these won't have a specific name. They are generic CC's that are assignable to do other things, such as Variation Up.

Obviously if I had a Pa5X I'd help verify this, but I don't. However, I do understand Manual Jingle-Elish and I see some clear indications that this may not even be an issue.

Kind regards
Sharp.

[Sharp]

Ah... see
Jump to page 507 of the manual for example. It clearly states that Variation Up / Down is assignable to a foot switch.

https://cdn.korg.com/us/support/downloa ... n%2Fpdf%3B


Sharp.

[karmathanever]

Thanks Sharp - yes indeed the "VAR-UP" can be assigned but the problem for me is that there are only 2 ports for (2) single pedals.
Everything on Page 559 works fine on my Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedals but several of the PA5x "pedal" assignments in the manual (P507 etc) like "VAR-UP" are not listed with their MIDI PCs/CCs.

PA4X with EC5 gives me 7 foot pedals which I fully use for performing and recording. If Korg gave us the other MIDI info for these assignments we could use a more generic MIDI pedal.

Cheers

Pete

[Sharp]

So you want this specific function on the Behringer?

If yes, this looks fine too. There is no Variation Up CC on theh chart, but there is a Foot Switch CC. So if you assign Variation Up to a Foot Switch, then you can use the Foot Switch CC value on the Behringer do activate whatever you assigned to Foot Switch.

Regards
Sharp.

[davekalbach]

Everything on Page 559 works fine on my Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedals but several of the PA5x "pedal" assignments in the manual (P507 etc) like "VAR-UP" are not listed with their MIDI PCs/CCs.

Pete - Do you know how to Program the two expression pedals of the FCB1010 to the 5X? Seems like it should be possible, but I wasn't sure since the 5X has a different setup for those two pedals (potentiometer vs on/off)

-- Dave

[karmathanever]

Yes that can be done but the Behringer then acts like 2 single pedal foot switches which plug into the 2 PA5x ports (which I already use).
So the FCB can give you 10 MIDI pedals and 2 switch pedals (FCB has 2 output ports for the switch cables)

Thanks

Pete

[Sharp]

Everything on Page 559 works fine on my Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedals but several of the PA5x "pedal" assignments in the manual (P507 etc) like "VAR-UP" are not listed with their MIDI PCs/CCs.

Pete - Do you know how to Program the two expression pedals of the FCB1010 to the 5X? Seems like it should be possible, but I wasn't sure since the 5X has a different setup for those two pedals (potentiometer vs on/off)

-- Dave

To use the epression pedals, you don't have to change any settings on the Pa5X. You only need to assign the correct CC values to the Behringer pedals for the Volumes you want to control. See 555 for example. There's no need to change anything on the Pa5X to control volume, ballance and so on.


https://cdn.korg.com/us/support/downloa ... n%2Fpdf%3B

[davekalbach]

Yes that can be done but the Behringer then acts like 2 single pedal foot switches which plug into the 2 PA5x ports (which I already use).
So the FCB can give you 10 MIDI pedals and 2 switch pedals (FCB has 2 output ports for the switch cables)

I missed that in my setup - So I just need to run two 1/4 inch cables to the 5X to use the FCB pedals as expression pedals?

[davekalbach]

To use the epression pedals, you don't have to change any settings on the Pa5X. You only need to assign the correct CC values to the Behringer pedals for the Volumes you want to control. See 555 for example. There's no need to change anything on the Pa5X to control volume, ballance and so on.

Thanks Sharp - this is getting over my head a little - still on about Page 460.

I'm trying to make the Outer Pedal the Keyboard Volume (slider) and the Inner Pedal the Style Sounds (Base, Drums, Accompaniment, etc.) So far I find nearly all of the styles have to be turned down to hear the keyboard well.

I have my keyboard defaulted to Volume 110 - but generally end up pushing it up to 127, and then lowering most everything else by about 20 to 30...

[Sharp]

Looks like you have to set the right hand pedal on the behringer to CC11

To control the style volume on the left pedal, I don't see a CC for that, but CC8 controls balance between the Right hand sounds and the styles. Would that suite?

If that doesn't suite, there maybe a work around this using assignable functions.

Kind regards
Sharp.

[D575]

While we wait for all the other the issues to sorted out by Korg and I also would like to see a replacement for EC5 (an expansion on EC5 concept would be logical now) making use of the extra USB ports...

So reading through all the treads making use of the Behringer FCB1010 I have now dragged out my FCB1010 and thought I would try a little experimenting also...

But... importantly PA5X still needs a Dedicated Interface and Hardware Solution as previously known...

If this is going to be a workaround for now perhaps a dedicated Sticky for this might be useful? I seam to remember one on the PA4X threads...

[davekalbach]

So reading through all the treads making use of the Behringer FCB1010 I have now dragged out my FCB1010 and thought I would try a little experimenting also...

If you do, please post what setup has worked for you. I still haven't been able to get the expression pedals to control volume as I wished. I have tried Sharps CC# suggestions of CC11 and CC08, but still haven't been able to make that work with the 5X. I have the 5X set to CONTROL on Channel 1, which I think should allow this to work.

(Of Note: I am running the FCB1010 to a Kronos then the Kronos to the Pa5X - I don't believe this should cause any issues) Channel 1 = Control, Channel 2 = Global - Kronos set to send MIDI on Channel 2 via Combi. All other Foot Switches on the FCB1010 are working with this setup.

[Sharp]

I have tried Sharps CC# suggestions of CC11 and CC08, but still haven't been able to make that work with the 5X. I have the 5X set to CONTROL on Channel 1, which I think should allow this to work.

Sounds like you probably missed the part where you set the range of motion for the pedal. The CC Value is only one part. You also have to set the minimum and maximum values for the range of motion the pedal can move. This is a value between 0 and 127.

This purpose of this is purely to give people huge amounts of flexibility. In the fully down position, some people may want the volume completely cut off, where someone else may only want the volume to reduced by 50%.

For example, a top value of 127 and a bottom value of 0 will give you the first scenario I mentioned, or a top value of 127 and a bottom value of 64 will give you the second scenario I mentioned.

Kind regards
Sharp.