Modify a user sound with a program change

[harcon01]

Hi

I think I have out smarted myself. Let me explain.

I have an external sound module (its actually a keyboard-Hammond SK1) that I have connected and I wanted to control the selection of a SK1 sounds from the Pa4X. I worked out what program change- bank (MSB/LSB/PC) signal I needed to send to the SK1 to change the sound. I was then able to modify a User Sound to send that program change on selection. The midi preset had been set to channel out on Upper 1. I was also able to rename the user sound to match the name from the SK1. Works brilliantly.

The problem is that I want to add some more sounds but I cannot remember how I did it. I remember I had to use an existing user sound, null out all the sounds and then somehow I modified the program change (MSB/LSB/PC). I was hoping someone might know how you modify the program change (MSB/LSB/PC) of a user (single) sound. The only program change modification I can see is thru track control and changing to external but this does not give you flexibility I have as I can select Upper 1 user sound with any style. Nothwithstanding the fact I was able to modify the program change within the User Sound.

Any help on how I did it would be appreciated.

Paul

[siebenhirter]

.. I want to add some more sounds but I cannot remember how I did it. I remember I had to use an existing user sound, null out all the sounds and then somehow I modified the program change (MSB/LSB/PC) ...

You can not modify "program change message" of Pa4x-user sounds (PCGs), because its MSB/LSB/PC are fixed with 121/64-67/0-127.
LSB 64-67 correspond to the user sound banks User01.pcg - User04.pcg (manual -> media structure).

You can create 4 x 128 user sounds with null out and name of each user sound can optionally be assigned with the sound editor to get a name corresponding to the sound names of SK1.

[harcon01]

siebenhirter

Thanks for taking time to respond, I would normally agree with your comments. However as stated not only did I do it, but it works!

The only problem I have is I can’t remember how I did to modify the program change MSB/LSB of a user sound.

Paul

[harcon01]

siebenhirter

Thanks for taking time to respond, I would normally agree with your comments. However as stated not only did I do it, but it works!

The only problem I have is I can’t remember how I did to modify the program change MSB/LSB of a user sound.

Paul

[harcon01]

siebenhirter

I think I figured out your comment ...You can not modify "program change message" of Pa4x-user sounds (PCGs), because its MSB/LSB/PC are fixed with 121/64-67/0-127.

Its not the Pa4x User bank MSB/LSB/PC I am trying to change, you right it cannot be modified. Its the MSB/LSB/PC program message it sends out to the external module.

As indicated I thought I started with an existing user bank and when I check its MSB/LSB/PC it transmits I need to be able to change that program change to match the patch location on my external sound module.

But I cannot remember how I did

Paul

[karmathanever]

Hi Paul

As Siebenhiter says: you cannot change any MSB/LSB/PC on the PA4X - they are fixed.

Just maybe.....
..... you would have to find the PA4X SOUND that matches the MSB/LSB/PC you need on the Hammond, then rename and perhaps "clear" that SOUND on the PA4X to just use as a "PC" for the Hammond.
If it is a PA4X factory SOUND you may need to unprotect it in order to change it.

I did look briefly at the SK1 manual but like most, it is not very good for things like this.

Also, you mentioned that you have this successfully running already - can you not see what you did in those currently working configurations?

Cheers

Pete

[harcon01]

Hi

Mystery resolved thanks to Pete & Siebenhiter for giving me some clues.

I was complicating the solution believing that the MSB/LSB/PC code that the Pa4x transmitted was needed. In fact it is only the PC part (program change) that the external sound module needed (SK1).

The SK1 has User patches 1-99 and by using the Pa4x User sound say patch 1, the Pa4x would transmit PC 0 (usual take off 1 to get the right patch number) and disregard the MSB/LSB part. For User sound 2 it would transmit 1 etc etc.

So to summaries for others that are interested in controlling an external sound module using User Sound Patches on the Pa4x

1 Copy a user sound patch to a blank user sound.
2 Null all sounds from the copied patch
3 Note position of sound patch (viz position 1 transmits PC 0.. per above comment)
4 Rename Korg Pa4x user sound to match name on external sound module

Obviously the external sound module will need to be tested to see if it reacts to PC changes and not the full MSB/LSB/PC

Hope that helps someone else

Paul

[siebenhirter]

.. controlling an external sound module using User Sound Patches on the Pa4x
1 Copy a user sound patch to a blank user sound.
2 Null all sounds from the copied patch
3 Note position of sound patch (viz position 1 transmits PC 0.. per above comment)
4 Rename Korg Pa4x user sound to match name on external sound module
..

It is not necessary to copy a user sound patch to a blank user sound or to rename it. It is simplier to use "show program nr" of the "showing/hiding" feature (Global > General Controls > Interface page). To do so "E:aaa.bbb.ccc" indicator is shown in sound select page.

Regardless of which sound module is used, the Pa4x always will send complete program change numbers to Midi out. This also applies to those user sounds that have not yet been assigned and are still empty.

If track that switch the SK sound patches you do not need the for the internal sounds of the Pa keyboard, you should change the Internal / External parameter to" External " - so the indicator is displayed instead of sound "empty".

The first user sound of the first user bank is "E: 121.064.000" - using this empty sound of Pa-arranger activates patch 1 of the SK. If you use the 99th user sound of the first user sound bank ("empty 121.064.098"), then it activates patch 99 of the SK, etc. This also happens with the 99th user sound of the second/third/fourth user sounds bank ("empty 121.065.98 / 121.066.98 / 121.067.98 / 121.067.98) , because the SK ignores the bank select commands MSB and LSB.