Mid-pattern fill?

[rvstraten]

Hi all. Is it possible to fill mid-point through a 4-bar style pattern, effectively creating a 2/4 bar from a 4/4 (restarting at bar 1 post-fill)? A number of songs I play need a bar of 2/4 inserted from time to time and the only way around it thus far is to wait it out (which is crummy if people are following along).

[Reuben]

Maybe double the tempo for that bar and also double note values?

[rvstraten]

For sake of clarity, I want to do this real-time (I play live - no recordings/tracks).

[Korghelper]

Is your timing good enough to hit the Reset button manually half way through the fill (or regular bar)? Or could you put it on a footswitch or EC-5 switch and do it with a foot?

Thing is, do you want a 2/4 fill EVERY time, or only occasionally? If you want a specific fill to be 2/4 every time, you can edit the fill. But if it only goes 2/4 from time to time, it’s a bit of a PITA.

[Sam CA]

Hi all. Is it possible to fill mid-point through a 4-bar style pattern, effectively creating a 2/4 bar from a 4/4 (restarting at bar 1 post-fill)? A number of songs I play need a bar of 2/4 inserted from time to time and the only way around it thus far is to wait it out (which is crummy if people are following along).

I would come up with a more permanent and easy to execute type of solution. If you're ok with sacrificing one of your Fills..., you can edit it from a 4/4 to a 2/4 fill and save it to one of the fills (maybe the BREAK), so it'll be easy to remember as well. That would be your 2/4 fill whenever it's needed for that particular style.

The video below is how I've done my time signature editing for years. I'm very efficient when it comes to DAWs so that's the fastest way for me. Apparently there's a way of doing the same thing on the keyboard which I have never tried.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvq8dMnkIU4

[siebenhirter]

... a more permanent and easy to execute type of solution ..

The style editor offers all possibilities to program each style element with different time signatures afterwards and you don't need any external sequencer software.

The midi events of a style element can be completely deleted in the style editor, so that afterwards this style element can either be reprogrammed with a changed time signature, or on such style elements with a copy of another style element can be overwritten. So there are no limits to realizing different mixed time signatures within a style - such as a half bar fill with 2/4 in a 4/4 style.

In German Forum last three posting of thread "Korg Pa3xMusikant" you will find how to create 2/4-Halfbar-Fills within 4/4-Styles (in German Language).

https://forum.korg.de/index.php?t=msg&goto=67405

[Sam CA]

... a more permanent and easy to execute type of solution ..

...
In German Forum last three posting of thread "Korg Pa3xMusikant" you will find how to create 2/4-Halfbar-Fills within 4/4-Styles (in German Language).

https://forum.korg.de/index.php?t=msg&goto=67405

I would still use a DAW. That's the fastest way for me. For many it might not be the best way. There's much more to editing a 4/4 bar into a 2/4 than just deleting half bar and throwing a new time signature. It may not be the most musical sounding approach depending on the musical content of that bar...and the rest of the style elements that this bar is going to transition into.


Glad to know there are multiple ways of doing things for those who want to do everything at one place.

[siebenhirter]

.. I would still use a DAW. That's the fastest way for me. For many it might not be the best way. ..

In the case of the OP to create a halfbar-fill or to copy from a 4/4-Fill you need no DAW. I think it is really the fastest way for him to be done with style-edit in style-record.

Once you are familiar with the procedure, copy with style-edit is done within three minutes and regardless of whether you want to use the first two 2/4, the middle 2/4 or the last two 2/4 of an existing fill-in for a 2/4-halfbar fill.

Creating a 2/4 fill from scratch is just as easy once it has been understood how to do it (use the existing style with style-record, with style-edit delete the element intended for halfbar-fill, change meter of that element to 2/4, record events of that element, write style).

[rvstraten]

Thanks for the great tips/shares. I will give it a go and reply back how it went. At this point, just happy to know it’s possible.

[Korghelper]

I still think it’s important to know whether you need the 2/4 fill every time, or just occasionally?

Seems like a bunch of work when a tap on the Reset button would work as long as you don’t really need to do it ALL the time.

Country music has a bad habit of only throwing a 2/4 bar in every now and again in some songs. Change all your fills to 2/4 and now you’ve got to carefully remember whether to call the fill on the one or on the three, and Heaven help you if you screw up!

If it’s a problem you VERY rarely come across, why not go the easiest route and use the Reset?

KISS… keep it stupidly simple (that’s the polite version!)

[rvstraten]

@Korghelper I just did a face-palm. RESET. Yup, that will do it. However, I can't give up my hands as in the instances I've come across so far, I'm making chord change with the LH and playing melody with RH. I did see that in Global Settings I can assign a foot controller to RESET. Easy. However, does that mean that the FC will always be assigned this function (as it's global)? Styles seem to have assignable switch and pad functions but not pedal. I'd hate to give up this controller function for just a couple of tunes in the repertoire.

[siebenhirter]

.. RESET. Yup, that will do it. ...

RESET is no good substitute for a programmed half bar fill sequence. It causes an abrupt asynchronous interruption. After RESET is pressed while playback is in progress, the style element immediately and starts at the current point - where you pressed between the beats - from measure 1.

With a programmed half bar sequence, the the trigger-point of its sequence will consider its cue-mode (immediate / next measure) and will enter the next style element depending on parameter of its fill mode (to Var ..., Var-Up / Down / Dec / Inc etc).

Therefore programmed sequences always remain in sync with the beats, which is not the case with RESET.

*
When Split is on, also velocity control parameter can be choosen to control Break function.
Velocity higher than the trigger value on the Lower track will trigger the Break automatically.

Another possibility is triggering Break (or Fill-Ins) via MIDI.

Break can be done with Program Change = 91 (Control Change 00 and 32+PC) on control channel (or Fill1-4 with PC 87 - 90 etc) with any Midi-Controller.

[Korghelper]

Reset rather depends on how good your timing is at hitting buttons. Just as there are some people that are awesome at using audio looper pedals and others that never seem to get down the accuracy needed to create a seamless loop on the fly. Therefore your response to how useful the feature is can easily be colored by this skill.

Is it the absolute best solution to this particular problem? That depends on firstly, your skill at engaging it with rhythmic accuracy, then also your skill and speed at editing styles. For me, a solution to a problem often boils down to how much TIME it is going to take to perfect the solution.

In this case, if I only need the style edited for just this one song, and it’s going to take me a day to edit the style (not many of us have done enough detailed style editing to be able to do it quickly without poring over the manual for hours or posting questions and waiting for answers!) and my timing is good enough that the reset button trick will work acceptably, well, that’s what I would do.

But if this style is used on multiple tunes that ALL need a 2/4 fill from time to time, and perhaps I have difficulty playing the tune and hitting the reset accurately enough, then the day spent editing the style would be time well spent, with the bonus that any future fill editing I need to do is now more familiar to me.

So each of us need to evaluate the problem differently…

As a final thought, rvstraten, do you have an EC-5? If you are uncomfortable tasking one of the control inputs on the arranger to be permanently a reset footswitch, you might look at using an EC-5, or alternatively, rewiring a normal single or dual footswitch to use the EC-5 connector to give you a bit more foot control without losing what you already have.

Of course, the BEST solution would be to have Korg rewrite the OS so controller functions were stored in a per patch or per Songbook entry basis rather than globally, but no one’s going to be holding their breath for that!

[rvstraten]

I think both approaches have merit. Now I just need to weigh investment of time (programming), investment of money (EC-5) and ROI for either the time or money spent to solve an occasional issue (oh yes, and satisfaction with outcome, which will be low if I use RESET and miss the mark). So far, I've just been trying to be creative in hiding the 2/4 bars either by changing the arrangement (adding beats) or in some cases, letting the style cycle through the next verse or chorus until it repeats the 2/4 bar and we're all good again.

First world problems, I know...

Thanks for all the great input. FWIW, Korghelper comment: [i]Of course, the BEST solution would be to have Korg rewrite the OS so controller functions were stored in a per patch or per Songbook entry basis rather than globally, but no one’s going to be holding their breath for that![/i]

is spot-on. Is this already noted in the OS wishlist thread?

[Korghelper]

You don’t need a full EC-5… you could use a cheap momentary footswitch and simply change the 1/4” jack at the end for the type that the EC-5 plugs into.

In fact, as potentially catastrophic as hitting the switch accidentally could be, it is probably best to do that and have the switch well away from other pedals where it might get pressed inadvertently!

Just make sure the polarity of the switch is correct if you get a non-switchable type. If I remember correctly, the polarity of the switches in the EC-5 are reverse from the polarity of those that are used for sustain (though I think you can reverse the polarity of the input for the sustain in the options, but you can’t for the EC-5) but doublecheck before you order anything..!

As cheap as switchable polarity tablet type footswitches are, I’d get one of those…

In the meantime, try putting a sustain pedal into the control input and just practice to see if you can hit it accurately enough to even bother with all the previous stuff!