MIDI OUT used as MIDI THRU

[Randelph]

Ok, always thought the Pa4x was not worth the extra money, esp without the great speakers on the Pa1000, but there are important differences!

For example, with the Pa1000 you get MIDI OUT/IN, but no Thru.

Is there a setting for making the MIDI OUT a MIDI THRU? I want to slave the Pa to a weighted-action controller using its MIDI OUT to go to the MIDI IN of the Pa. But I also need the MIDI OUT from the master keyboard to go out to another keyboard besides the Pa1000.

Can the Pa1000 MIDI OUT be made to act like a MIDI THRU?

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Also, why are my posts showing up as blank? I wrote a long and detailed response to the guy wanting battery and busking recommendations, something I'm very experienced with, and all my posts show up blank, no message.

Thanks,
Randy

[Musicwithharry]

Ok, always thought the Pa4x was not worth the extra money, esp without the great speakers on the Pa1000, but there are important differences!

For example, with the Pa1000 you get MIDI OUT/IN, but no Thru.

Is there a setting for making the MIDI OUT a MIDI THRU? I want to slave the Pa to a weighted-action controller using its MIDI OUT to go to the MIDI IN of the Pa. But I also need the MIDI OUT from the master keyboard to go out to another keyboard besides the Pa1000.

Can the Pa1000 MIDI OUT be made to act like a MIDI THRU?

------------------
Also, why are my posts showing up as blank? I wrote a long and detailed response to the guy wanting battery and busking recommendations, something I'm very experienced with, and all my posts show up blank, no message.

Thanks,
Randy

I do not believe that the PA700/PA1000 can reconfigure the MIDI Out to be a MIDI Thru. I would look into the MIDI Solutions MIDI Thru boxes to accomplish what you are trying to do.

I use the MIDI Solutions MIDI Thru boxes in my live rig and they work fine.

Grace,
Harry

[Randelph]

As always, thanks Harry!

Yeah, I'll probably pick up one of those 4 THRU from MIDI Solutions.

I'm doing like we've talked about- I've got the Kawai ES110 as my weighted controller for synth/semi-weighted boards- it's fan freakintastic! I love the feel of the ES110, so nice to have a weighted action be the main playing board!

Going straight from it's MIDI din out to the MIDI din in of the Pa1000, it played as expected, but after a short while I noticed a slight delay for part of the sound, like the attack or release? Didn't really understand what I was hearing, but there was the body of sound coming out and then another part of the sound coming shortly after. Weird. Nothing else was being played, just straight from the MIDI out to the in.

So, with your extensive setup, MIDI USB as well as MIDI din, how do you manage all that? Have you ever set it up without having a computer acting as a go-between device? I'd love to be able, sans computer, to trigger from the MIDI din of the ES110 to other din devices as well as USB MIDI devices.

Wanted to share- I picked up a Casio CT-X5000. What a board for the money! At last, a board under $500 with decent sounds, the action is very playable, and the speakers are very good as well (the action is on a par with the Pa1000, without the AT, which says something about both boards). I hung out with it for awhile, was taking a break from the Pa1000. EVERYTHING on the Pa1000 is a magnatude or two better on the Korg, but it's also a much simpler board, and I don't worry as much about it when going out of the house to jams or family gatherings 'cause of the price.

It's the Casio that has the USB MIDI.

[Musicwithharry]

As always, thanks Harry!

Yeah, I'll probably pick up one of those 4 THRU from MIDI Solutions.

I'm doing like we've talked about- I've got the Kawai ES110 as my weighted controller for synth/semi-weighted boards- it's fan freakintastic! I love the feel of the ES110, so nice to have a weighted action be the main playing board!

Going straight from it's MIDI din out to the MIDI din in of the Pa1000, it played as expected, but after a short while I noticed a slight delay for part of the sound, like the attack or release? Didn't really understand what I was hearing, but there was the body of sound coming out and then another part of the sound coming shortly after. Weird. Nothing else was being played, just straight from the MIDI out to the in.

So, with your extensive setup, MIDI USB as well as MIDI din, how do you manage all that? Have you ever set it up without having a computer acting as a go-between device? I'd love to be able, sans computer, to trigger from the MIDI din of the ES110 to other din devices as well as USB MIDI devices.

Wanted to share- I picked up a Casio CT-X5000. What a board for the money! At last, a board under $500 with decent sounds, the action is very playable, and the speakers are very good as well (the action is on a par with the Pa1000, without the AT, which says something about both boards). I hung out with it for awhile, was taking a break from the Pa1000. EVERYTHING on the Pa1000 is a magnatude or two better on the Korg, but it's also a much simpler board, and I don't worry as much about it when going out of the house to jams or family gatherings 'cause of the price.

It's the Casio that has the USB MIDI.

I apologize for my late response to you. Not sure where I was, even though I was here

I LOVE the Kawai products. It is hard to argue with their action AND their sound. Many reviews have put the ES110 very favorably, and for good reason. I happen to LOVE the Kawai piano sounds, but I also understand they are an acquired taste. I have a Lowrey EZP3, which is basically a Kawai, since Kawai owns Lowrey. I got it for an absolute steal as a keyboard company we've heard of was blowing them out for about $325 a few years ago. I should have bought two of them for that price.

Anyway, with my MIDI rig, I still do not use a computer for any DAW or MIDI routings. I simply use the keyboards, MIDIed together with a JL Cooper Nexus and a MIDI Solutions 4-port box. I also use the MIDI Thru jacks on some of the gear as well (like the rack Ensoniq, Korg, Alesis, and the Roland D-05). I get no latency issues at all, that I can tell.

The JL Cooper Nexus is a 3 In by 8 Out affair and I have:

In #1 - coming from the Korg Kross 88
In #2 - coming from the Ensoniq VFX-SD
In #3 - routed from the computer via my Presonus Audiobox USB Interface, but this port also used when I want the PA700 to control everything; I just swap cables. I have only used the computer MIDI for archiving some piano songs I wrote on the Lowrey because I did not want to archive them on the Kross 88, like I did on another album I did a few years ago.

I also did an album in 2016 when my wife was in AZ for a number of months taking care of her stepmom (we live in Iowa), and I was home left to my devices. I started writing a rock opera that turned into a thematic symphonic rock instrumental album. I used over 16 synths on that album, all controlled by the Ensoniq VFX-SD only. In fact, I even used a multi-track recorder for that album (Tascam DP-008) and only used the PC for the WAV/MP3 file creation and mastering of the album.

The ONLY synths in my experience, throughout my career, that gave me problems with latency and such were older Roland units. I had a couple of JV880 units back in the day and if I used them in the middle of a large MIDI Thru chain, I would get weird things happening downstream from them. I simply moved them to the end of the chain and things were fine. With that said, I try to keep the 'chained' devices to around 3-5 units, just to be safe.

The MIDI signal is supposed to rejuvenate itself as it passes through a MIDI Thru port so I am not sure why those old Rolands had issues. It was such an issue that it was actually in Keyboard Magazine a few times.

With regard to the sounds not sounding right when being MIDIed from the Kawai, it is obvious that your MIDI channel is set right, or you not get the right sound at all. I would double check it though to make sure that the ES110 is sending the main sound on Ch 1, the Layer sound is on Ch 2 and the Split sound is on Ch 3. I believe the Kawai lets you choose this. I would correspond the PA1000 to the same convention.

If not, then I would make a MIDI setup on the PA1000 (through the Global-->MIDI page) that corresponds to what the Kawai outputs to. I used to have a Yamaha MM8 and you could not change the MIDI Output Channel assignments for the Main/Layer/Split and so I was forced to change the other gear to meet its requirements. I also still have a Roland E-09 that no longer sees much use (since I got the PA700) and it too would not allow for a change in its MIDI Channel setups. Its main sound transmitted/received on Channel 4, so I had to change any gear that was going to layer with the main sound on the Roland. It is a pain sometimes, but worth it when it works

Your problem may be that you are just triggering a different sound than the main one. I would also maybe select a filter(s) to get rid of everything except the Control Change or Damper stuff, so that the Korg is not responding to extra stuff from the Kawai.

I know with the Korg, that it sends ALL SORTS of MIDI data and I had to create a MIDI preset that did not turn off external EFX on my other synths. I had planned to use the Korg M50 I have for layering with the PA700 for a duo and trio I am putting together, but the EFX on the M50 would always go to '0' whenever I loaded a new sequence into memory into the PA700. Filtering out those messages stopped that from happening. I am now trying to figure out another issue with Muting/Unmuting tracks on external MIDI gear while in Sequencer Mode on the PA700, but I have not exhausted all options yet. Basically, whenever I load in a new sequence, all external MIDI tracks are muted and I have to Mute/Umute each track that is sending externally (even if it is triggering internal sounds too) before I start the sequence. That limits me to pretty much using the PA700 and only an Alesis SR-16 drum machine (for drum kit layering with the Korg), since I can Mute/Unmute one track before starting the sequence.

Hopefully this added info will help a bit and clean things up.

If you go to the MIDI Solutions webpage, they have a number of offerings that you can take a look at for MIDI routing devices. They have an 8-port Thru unit as well, that may work well, and it is under $200. I considered one in the past, but I ended up buying another JL Cooper Nexus and it works better for a multi-in MIDI setup, since it has 3 MIDI Ins on it. The Midi Solutions stuff are basically MIDI Thru boxes. I am not aware of any stand alone MIDI patch bays being produced anymore...

Congrats on the Casio. I would have considered them as well, but the USB MIDI only option kind of threw me off. I did not want to have to buy a USB host thingy in order to get it to talk to the rest of my gear. With that said, I think that the PA700/PA1000 can talk USB MIDI to other USB MIDI devices, so maybe that would allow you to make it talk to the PA1000. I had bought an M-Audio piano module that had a USB MIDI thingy in it. It also acted as a MIDI host, so maybe that is why it worked... I ended up sending it back because the piano sounds were crap.

I am glad it works for you for the lighter music stuff. That is why I bought the new Korg i3 when it came out

Grace,
Harry

[siebenhirter]

... figure out another issue with Muting / Unmuting tracks on external MIDI gear while in Sequencer Mode on the PA700 .. whenever I load in a new sequence, all external MIDI tracks are muted and I have to Mute / Umute each track .. That limits me to pretty much using the PA700 ..

With thread "Frustrated Ranting ahead..." (http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 4&start=15) you get the info "do not use sequencer-mode but play-mode", because listening MIDI Songs LOADED in the Sequencer mode only is suitable to check the results of editing .

Listening to the MIDI songs in Sequencer mode is not suitable for controlling connected MIDI equipment via MIDI, whereas sequencer mode only is made for recording. With Pa-arrangers recording a sequence is one step without defined MIDI settings; playing a saved sequence is another step with its accurate settings in MIDI-out.

To satisfactory control connected MIDI equipment use PlayMode with sequences saved in SMFs, which are selected and played with SELECT without to be LOADED as you do else in sequencer mode.

To play satisfactory with external MIDI equipment OPEN Song Select window from the control panel or from the display. SELECT Player1 or Player2 and find SMF contained to select SMF with its path and device, to be ready for transmission of saved sequences without to be loaded in sequencer mode.
*
I don't think that you can avoid your existing limitations when using MIDI equipment other than using the Pa700 with the properties that are intended for the MIDI network - and in this case it is the PlayMode with Player1 or Player2, but is not in sequencer mode, made for recording only.

[Musicwithharry]

... figure out another issue with Muting / Unmuting tracks on external MIDI gear while in Sequencer Mode on the PA700 .. whenever I load in a new sequence, all external MIDI tracks are muted and I have to Mute / Umute each track .. That limits me to pretty much using the PA700 ..

With thread "Frustrated Ranting ahead..." (http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 4&start=15) you get the info "do not use sequencer-mode but play-mode", because listening MIDI Songs LOADED in the Sequencer mode only is suitable to check the results of editing .

Listening to the MIDI songs in Sequencer mode is not suitable for controlling connected MIDI equipment via MIDI, whereas sequencer mode only is made for recording. With Pa-arrangers recording a sequence is one step without defined MIDI settings; playing a saved sequence is another step with its accurate settings in MIDI-out.

To satisfactory control connected MIDI equipment use PlayMode with sequences saved in SMFs, which are selected and played with SELECT without to be LOADED as you do else in sequencer mode.

To play satisfactory with external MIDI equipment OPEN Song Select window from the control panel or from the display. SELECT Player1 or Player2 and find SMF contained to select SMF with its path and device, to be ready for transmission of saved sequences without to be loaded in sequencer mode.
*
I don't think that you can avoid your existing limitations when using MIDI equipment other than using the Pa700 with the properties that are intended for the MIDI network - and in this case it is the PlayMode with Player1 or Player2, but is not in sequencer mode, made for recording only.

Thank you again. Like I said in that thread after your recommendation, I would try that and see if it works. I have not been able to try that yet.

I should not have to use Song Mode in order to achieve what I need to, though. Just as you feel that your Style to KbdSet is an issue, I feel my issue to be the similar thing, in practice.

If I do have to use Song Mode to play my sequences where I can trigger external MIDI gear, that does seem to be somewhat counter-productive, in a way. The assumption that the Sequencer Mode to ONLY program sequences and then have to switch to Song Mode to play them with external gear seems like a lot of work, just to play sequences with external MIDI gear. I have NEVER had that problem with any of my other hardware sequencers, including my other Korg equipment.

I will play around with it today and see what happens. I did notice that F#4 key on my Korg Kross 1-88 giving me fits last evening so I may have to take it apart and clean the contacts; which is weird because this particular Kross was the one that was in for repair for so long...

Grace,
Harry