Please HELP on Audio Event Edit

[Dniss]

Hi everyone,

I'm having difficulty editing an audio track in the sequencer. I have wav files that I insert end to end on a track. Some are 2 mesures long, others are 1 mesure long.

Everything works fine until a save the song and load it back. When I load it back, everthing is messed up. The beat tick changes by itself to a value over 4 and some ending mesures are also changing. So when I playback the song, some wav are not playing and I end up with silent mesures.

When I fix everything than save it again, same things happens.

Is there a step I'm missing here?

Cheers!

Den

p.s. Here's a pic (sorry for bad quality) after I load it back again. Notice the beat tick values.

[GregC]

Hi everyone,

I'm having difficulty editing an audio track in the sequencer. I have wav files that I insert end to end on a track. Some are 2 mesures long, others are 1 mesure long.

Everything works fine until a save the song and load it back. When I load it back, everthing is messed up. The beat tick changes by itself to a value over 4 and some ending mesures are also changing. So when I playback the song, some wav are not playing and I end up with silent mesures.

When I fix everything than save it again, same things happens.

Is there a step I'm missing here?

Cheers!

Den

p.s. Here's a pic (sorry for bad quality) after I load it back again. Notice the beat tick values.

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I use audio files in the SEQ. Simple use.

I don't recall, if changing/saving tempo for the Song or midi tracks also changes
my audio files.

My recollection is the tempo of midi tracks and audio works independent.

In general, when I record a Song and its near complete, I insert the audio file
which has the timing/tempo ( from audacity) I want, as the final step.

Also, where ( what measure) to start the audio file, is very fiddly in Audio event edit. I usually get it wrong. Plus the beat tick (?) countdown also adds to errors.
This is likely due to me not using Event Edit correctly.

Don't know if this helps much

[Dniss]

Hi Greg! Thanks for your reply.

I was looking for solutions and went in trim mode (wav edit), I noticed that the audio files have a tempo of 120, while my song has a tempo of 113.

Could that be it? Intuitively I assumed audio track tempo were irrelevant, since it's a recording.

I also create these wav files in Audacity. If I understand correctly, you are matching audio tempo to song tempo in audacity?

Thanks

[GregC]

I also create these wav files in Audacity. If I understand correctly, you are matching audio tempo to song tempo in audacity?

Thanks

exactly my process.

Even doing that is not 100% perfect. For example, I use to insert vocal files from YouTube. Even while I established the tempo(BPM) of that, and matched it in the SEQ, there was still some drift.

Some will argue thats impossible with todays tech and the way audio files are copied, but my experience says otherwise. But thats a somewhat different topic.
( that some audio files degrade or have inconsistent tempo)

[Dniss]

Greg I think I found out what's the prblm.

I use one sample as a template and I change its pitch in Audacity to obtain different notes. I then export those as seperate wav, labeling them like WaveD#, WaveC, and so on.

By doing so I must be inadvertently changing something else in the file. Either its total length or tempo.

So in essence, many of these files must have a different length, or some sort of different other attribute. My guess is adding them end to end is not a perfect fit. I thought starting on beat 1 would always make it work, regardless of where each of them end in the measure.

Not sure if I'm making sense here, and mostly not sure how to go about this.

[19naia]

Greg I think I found out what's the prblm.

I use one sample as a template and I change its pitch in Audacity to obtain different notes. I then export those as seperate wav, labeling them like WaveD#, WaveC, and so on.

By doing so I must be inadvertently changing something else in the file. Either its total length or tempo.

So in essence, many of these files must have a different length, or some sort of different other attribute. My guess is adding them end to end is not a perfect fit. I thought starting on beat 1 would always make it work, regardless of where each of them end in the measure.

Not sure if I'm making sense here, and mostly not sure how to go about this.

If that is the case(your guess is better than mine), then maybe would work better to set it up with all the corrections, and run the song through while recording the audio track .wav file parts, to a sample or to a whole new audio track, so their parts are consolidated in one unit the system cannot fragment to fit its own sequence confusion.

Doing that should make a big difference if you don’t need all the audio parts separated for independent parameter modulations and such.
Maybe do the consolidation into one audio track file, getting everything in the same time situation and then slice it back up for independent parameter modulations for each part.

[Dniss]

I ended up doing everything on my computer. The Kronos seq is just not robust enough to use this approach. I'm still not clear at this point what the problem is.

Now I have to export many waves files to a new single wav file that cover the entire song. Thus reducing the sound quality a even more.

Doing that should make a big difference if you don’t need all the audio parts separated for independent parameter modulations and such.
Maybe do the consolidation into one audio track file, getting everything in the same time situation and then slice it back up for independent parameter modulations for each part.

[GregC]

I ended up doing everything on my computer. The Kronos seq is just not robust enough to use this approach. I'm still not clear at this point what the problem is.

Now I have to export many waves files to a new single wav file that cover the entire song. Thus reducing the sound quality a even more.

Doing that should make a big difference if you don’t need all the audio parts separated for independent parameter modulations and such.
Maybe do the consolidation into one audio track file, getting everything in the same time situation and then slice it back up for independent parameter modulations for each part.

that sounds yucky ( for quality). Also have the experience of declining quality when re-copying WAV files . Some say this 'should ' not happen, but it does.

You can insert up to 16 audio tracks. And fix your start/end points in Edit Track screen.

Some K owners use audio tracks heavily but at most I use 2 or 3.
It seems time consuming to me to use many.

There might some folks that can break down the steps to get the Audio Event Edit form to work more consistently. Actually, there are a few steps involved as you importing the WAV.

Sharp has a video/YT on this and it might help.

Give your post a few more days for experts to reply

[voip]

It should not be necessary to have to re-create the WAV sample at different pitches. The Kronos open sampling system will do this for you, e.g. a single sample can be played across the keyboard, or several samples, each played in a different octave, to break up the ranges covered, can be altered in pitch. The latter can sound more natural, the former can create interesting textures and sounds. A HD-1 Program can then be created, using the sample(s), and added as a track in the sequencer, so the samples can be played "naturally" using the keyboard.

The Sampling sections in the Operations Guide, and Parameter Guide will be useful reading. The main thing to remember is to uncheck the "Constant Pitch" option in the Sampling menus Multi Sample tab.

.

[Dniss]

Thanks voip. Perhaps I should have mentionned that I'm already familiar with all this, I was asking about a very specific issue.

In the audio event edit, do you know what are both Beat tick for? I read the manual but I don't understand.

[19naia]

Page 641 parameter guide.
Talks about Anchor points and how changing length can change entire section positions, but that certain settings checked can keep things in the same position.
Sounds like this is a scenario where if settings are not made to keep things from moving around as you edit parts of audio snips, that edits will end up including shifts of time positions per part.
Of course this is for audio event edit function and does not explain why it gets scattered right out of recording, before editing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~paramter guide page 641.~~~~~~~~~~~
If you check the “Anchor” check box, the anchor point location will be displayed in Measure and “Beat Tick”, and you can specify the location using this anchor point as the reference. This is convenient when a point inside a region needs to be aligned at a specific location.
• If you edit the location with “Trim Region Start” checked, the “Start” of the region will also be adjusted simultaneously. Check this box if you want to adjust the length without changing the overall position.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pages 517-518 cover tempo modes and time signature changes across parts of tracks. I assums signature and tempo changes are data included in the master track of kronos and could possbly meet conflict with any differing tempo and time signature data embedded in tracks that come from external sequencers that embed time sig. and tempo data in each track and not just master track.
Just some guess work after looking into how tempo and time sig. work in kronos. Not really sure how or if an audio track/file would package with extra data that would affect Sys-ex and midi.

[PCFREE]

It would be nice if you could move Audio around with a mouse just like on the Roland Fantom series keyboards

[DrKewel]

I use Audio Hijack to get my recordings, edit whatever I need in Logic and then convert the mp3's to .wav with Switch. Seems to work fine, I never needed to worry about temp changes.

[Dniss]

If you check the “Anchor” check box, the anchor point location will be displayed in Measure and “Beat Tick”, and you can specify the location using this anchor point as the reference. This is convenient when a point inside a region needs to be aligned at a specific location.
• If you edit the location with “Trim Region Start” checked, the “Start” of the region will also be adjusted simultaneously. Check this box if you want to adjust the length without changing the overall position.

Thanks for your reply.

It does sound like it but I have difficulty understanding how it works.