Kronos or Montage ?

Kronos2ison · Post by **Kronos2ison** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:00 pm

I owned a Kronos 1 for two- three years. I had sold it a couple years ago because I was afraid something new was coming out and didn't want to lose my butt. I then waited through 2 winter namm shows and what I thought was wood end cap or color upgrade Kronos. So I took a 1hr drive to my closest music store and demo the Montage for almost 2 hrs. Honestly I felt the Montage was a Mofit with a "Super" knob. It was a major confusing handicapping synthesizer. So then after I stumbled through the Montage for all I could endure. I walked over to the Kronos 2 on display and it was night and day experience. While I was playing it I realized the Kronos2 was a next generation and lived up to it. All the negative points I experienced with my Kronos 1 were fixed, improved and resolved. If and when a new Kronos 3 releases? It's going to need to be mind blowing to have me condider upgrading.

theshinenz wrote:I'm following this thread hoping to talk myself out of selling my Kronos and getting a montage. I'm not a big programmer I'd rather pick a similar sound I'm after and edit it.

Things I hate about the Kronos most are, the interface, the sample management, the load time and the fact I'm reluctant to purchase sample banks for it as they are so expensive and you don't really own them thanks to korgs locked to one Kronos policy.

The montage sounds great when I tried it in the store. There's always a down side though. Things that worry me about changing is whether the organ will sound ok live. And trying to program simple sounds from scratch may be more difficult using fm rather than analog modelling engines. The other thing is the midi control. I'm hoping it has send and receive filters etc like Kronos.

Still haven't decided yet but will continue to follow this thread and see what info others have

Kronos2ison · Post by **Kronos2ison** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:01 pm

oops double post

fcoulter · Post by **fcoulter** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:31 pm

Kronos2ison wrote:I owned a Kronos 1 for two- three years. I had sold it a couple years ago because I was afraid something new was coming out and didn't want to lose my butt. I then waited through 2 winter namm shows and what I thought was wood end cap or color upgrade Kronos. So I took a 1hr drive to my closest music store and demo the Montage for almost 2 hrs. Honestly I felt the Montage was a Mofit with a "Super" knob. It was a major confusing handicapping synthesizer. So then after I stumbled through the Montage for all I could endure. I walked over to the Kronos 2 on display and it was night and day experience. While I was playing it I realized the Kronos2 was a next generation and lived up to it. All the negative points I experienced with my Kronos 1 were fixed, improved and resolved. If and when a new Kronos 3 releases? It's going to need to be mind blowing to have me condider upgrading.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the fixes between the Kronos 1 and the Kronos 2 available as software upgrades and sound bank purchases?

Jeremy Bender · Post by **Jeremy Bender** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:12 am

I tried the Montage twice in the last week at PMT in Birmingham UK.

I turned 50 last month so have a lovely chance to treat myself to a new toy! My wife is very encouraging of my love of synths. I am very lucky.

I am looking for a supplement to my Kronos 88. I've had it since day 1 (serial number 00017) and it still engrosses me every time I play it. Plus the ongoing Korg updates are brilliant.

But we all like to play new synths. I found the Montage very playable and it has some great sounds. The choirs were fabulous and inspiring. I would love to get similar sounds in my Kronos.

But the user interface with the smaller screen is clearly nowhere near Kronos standard. Navigation was hard but I guess this would improve quick with use.

But- the recent posts about midi assignment complexity and inflexibility worry me. I read the links to the Yamaha forums and as someone else said the tone from the Yamaha Rep in their responses was horribly condescending. I cannot recall a single example of such a response in years of daily reading this forum from Dan or Rich etc...

So I'm unsure now. I don't need a Montage but thought a 61 key would be a great addition to my rig but maybe there is something better. Maybe I should just enjoy what I have more!

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:55 am

I also had a demo on the Montage a while back. I wanted a Yamaha soundset to compliment the Kronos, and honestly, I have to say that I wasn't that impressed. I saved myself £2K and walked out with an MX.

Charlievv · Post by **Charlievv** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:47 pm

My situation is much like Jeremy's., although I have him beat by 8 years. I think your hitting it right on the head Jeremy... enjoy what we have. YOur probably old school with keys in many ways and think back when you started playing keyboards and compare that to what you now have in the Kronos. Mind blowing...no?
I too get tempted to pick up a new board and the Montage has been teasing with me for a year now, but I also agree, I do not want to get something that will dry me nuts to get set up in my current setup. I think Yamaha had some good ideas with this board, but I think more so, they did what they wanted and did not take the end users into great consideration. I think we all know there is a curve with any new product today as the tech is so advanced, but when I hear seasoned guys complaining about the curve and the interface and some other issues........ I put on the brakes. Been there, Did that, not fun and the glow of the super know wears off.

Jeremy Bender · Post by **Jeremy Bender** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:58 pm

Yes the Yamaha would add some new sounds but nothing I could not make with some effort on the existing gear I have.

Roland JDX-A looks fun as well though....

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Jeremy Bender wrote:I tried the Montage twice in the last week at PMT in Birmingham UK.

I turned 50 last month so have a lovely chance to treat myself to a new toy! My wife is very encouraging of my love of synths. I am very lucky.

I am looking for a supplement to my Kronos 88. I've had it since day 1 (serial number 00017) and it still engrosses me every time I play it. Plus the ongoing Korg updates are brilliant.

But we all like to play new synths. I found the Montage very playable and it has some great sounds. The choirs were fabulous and inspiring. I would love to get similar sounds in my Kronos.

But the user interface with the smaller screen is clearly nowhere near Kronos standard. Navigation was hard but I guess this would improve quick with use.

But- the recent posts about midi assignment complexity and inflexibility worry me. I read the links to the Yamaha forums and as someone else said the tone from the Yamaha Rep in their responses was horribly condescending. I cannot recall a single example of such a response in years of daily reading this forum from Dan or Rich etc...

So I'm unsure now. I don't need a Montage but thought a 61 key would be a great addition to my rig but maybe there is something better. Maybe I should just enjoy what I have more!

If you're looking for something to complement the Kronos' sounds, have you considered the Roland Integra 7? It's nice to add more sounds without having to add another keyboard. Some of Roland's Supernatural sounds are pretty good. Quite a few of the orchestral instruments are very good quality. And as for the synths, maybe it's my lack of expert programming skills on the Kronos, but I'm finding the Roland synths "juicier" or "meatier" than the Kronos... halfway between the Korg's VAs and actual analog qualities. Everything is organized by genres, and with over 6000 sounds, there is good enough variety to quickly find something close to what you need and then tweak from there.

As for choirs and such, I suppose it's best to find a really good commercial sample pack and bring that into the Kronos.

Navigation on the Integra is really intuitive, and its MIDI flexibility is simple as well, being very similar in concept to Korg's Combi approach. Food for thought.

Kronos2ison · Post by **Kronos2ison** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:04 pm

Maybe software fixes only. If you search this forum you will see Korg gutted out the Kronos 1 pc components. Replaced and upgraded pretty much everything. I noticed right off the bat the keybed felt better. The touchscreen much more responsive and appears to be active ips. Fan upgrade noise issue is much better, mesh case vents with better cooling. The ram is also 1600mhz vs Kronos1=1066mhz. So that means a faster main board and front side bus. Gold plated Headphone jack update and wood end caps I do think makes it a little more solid. The new 2017 Kronos 2 just feels more solid and Korg may be doing more tweaks as I have not opened mine up. On my Kronos 1 I felt it had slight delay from the time the key was pressed until the sound hit my ears. Now the Kronos 2 I don't get that at all. What ever they did? They fixed it and I believe the hardware changes were made for a reason.

fcoulter wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the fixes between the Kronos 1 and the Kronos 2 available as software upgrades and sound bank purchases?

benny ray · Post by **benny ray** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:13 pm

Kronos2ison wrote:Maybe software fixes only. If you search this forum you will see Korg gutted out the Kronos 1 pc components. Replaced and upgraded pretty much everything. I noticed right off the bat the keybed felt better. The touchscreen much more responsive and appears to be active ips. Fan upgrade noise issue is much better, mesh case vents with better cooling. The ram is also 1600mhz vs Kronos1=1066mhz. So that means a faster main board and front side bus. Gold plated Headphone jack update and wood end caps I do think makes it a little more solid. The new 2017 Kronos 2 just feels more solid and Korg may be doing more tweaks as I have not opened mine up. On my Kronos 1 I felt it had slight delay from the time the key was pressed until the sound hit my ears. Now the Kronos 2 I don't get that at all. What ever they did? They fixed it and I believe the hardware changes were made for a reason.

Very well said a I had the Kronos X and upgraded to the KRONOS 2 last year.

fcoulter wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the fixes between the Kronos 1 and the Kronos 2 available as software upgrades and sound bank purchases?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:22 pm

Kronos2ison wrote:Maybe software fixes only. If you search this forum you will see Korg gutted out the Kronos 1 pc components. Replaced and upgraded pretty much everything. I noticed right off the bat the keybed felt better. The touchscreen much more responsive and appears to be active ips. Fan upgrade noise issue is much better, mesh case vents with better cooling. The ram is also 1600mhz vs Kronos1=1066mhz. So that means a faster main board and front side bus. Gold plated Headphone jack update and wood end caps I do think makes it a little more solid. The new 2017 Kronos 2 just feels more solid and Korg may be doing more tweaks as I have not opened mine up. On my Kronos 1 I felt it had slight delay from the time the key was pressed until the sound hit my ears. Now the Kronos 2 I don't get that at all. What ever they did? They fixed it and I believe the hardware changes were made for a reason.

[/quote]

Gutted out ? I suppose you believe so.

My 5 yr old Kronos runs like a champ. There is Zero lag. Zero latency.
The 88 keybed is solid. The fan is quiet. The LCD and response is snappy.

Of course, if better ram is available , Korg would install that. 5 year old ram is probably a collectors item and not practical. Thats the main reason.

I played the K2 and like it. But I saw little tangible reason to replace my 5 yr old 88.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:51 pm

theshinenz wrote:Yeah I get that, but Phil has been doing the same thing since the early Motif days. Yamahas midi control has never been the best. I guess its in Yamahas best interest to not admit its them that have the issue. The Motif had the same kind of issues except worse. It was never any good unless using it as a four zone master. At least the Montage has 16 channels of midi, send and receive filters etc. It looks like the downside it you have to send on more than one channel at a time to make it work. Im pretty sure my FA won't have an issue with that. The FA's downside is theres no send midi filter which can be worked around also with key ranges and volumes etc.

I guess all brands have their quirks, all depends on what is most important to the user.

I'm still probably going to grab a Montage but will be holding onto my kronos until I find out if I can do a workaround and get it to function how I need in my setup first.

I still love the sound of the Yamaha. And i still loathe the Kronos sample management and EXS licensing, hence the reason for possible change.

Not sure about the Motif, as that is where Yamaha made me fall asleep

but the MIDI control on the EX5 is fantastic, which is why I still use it as a master keyboard on stage. The Kromos is doing bout 80% of my sounds, there are still a few sounds where the EX5 kicks it butt, but not many. But as a master is one of the best I have come across.

I need to do some serious research to see what replaces the EX5. In the old days it probably would have automatically been a Yamaha, but now I am not so sure. I don't want another Kronos as I don't see the point in having two identical boards on stage, and it would be nice to have something capable of making a sound, but I am also investigating the option of getting all of my soft synths on a laptop, and which point I can spend a fraction of the price of the Montage on a good controller.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:55 pm

Derek Cook wrote:
theshinenz wrote:Yeah I get that, but Phil has been doing the same thing since the early Motif days.

I'm still probably going to grab a Montage but will be holding onto my kronos until I find out if I can do a workaround and get it to function how I need in my setup first.

I still love the sound of the Yamaha. And i still loathe the Kronos sample management and EXS licensing, hence the reason for possible change.
Not sure about the Motif, as that is where Yamaha made me fall asleep but the MIDI control on the EX5 is fantastic, which is why I still use it as a master keyboard on stage. The Kromos is doing bout 80% of my sounds, there are still a few sounds where the EX5 kicks it butt, but not many. But as a master is one of the best I have come across.

I need to do some serious research to see what replaces the EX5. In the old days it probably would have automatically been a Yamaha, but now I am not so sure. I don't want another Kronos as I don't see the point in having two identical boards on stage, and it would be nice to have something capable of making a sound, but I am also investigating the option of getting all of my soft synths on a laptop, and which point I can spend a fraction of the price of the Montage on a good controller.

I don't gig or need a 2nd controller.

I recently got a used MBP 13". Loaded with Ram and SSD. Using MainStage/MS as a host for VI's.

I did this since the VI's are so good and wanted to be future proof. I am fairly sure I can up my game. Not interested in looking back for Yamaha or Roland hardware.

If I had to have a 2nd controller, iRig and Korg make excellent controllers. There are several others.

I am on the side of having the simplest possible rig with the absolute best sounds. Not the most. Just the best in each category

dfahrner · Post by **dfahrner** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:52 pm

Kronos2ison wrote:Maybe software fixes only...the hardware changes were made for a reason.

Most of the hardware changes were made because of parts availability - the original Intel motherboard was discontinued, the newer m'boards use different RAM, etc...virtually all of the software fixes are available to owners of older Kronos with the software updates (auto power off and fan disable do require the newer hardware)...and I haven't seen any other reports of performance differences between old and new Kronos; anybody else experienced the keyboard response difference?

df

Kronos2ison · Post by **Kronos2ison** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:50 pm

Oh yeah there is a nice performance increase in the Kronos2. I am actually one of the first people to pop his Kronos 1 open and in fact had a bottle necked 100~150mb SSD transfer rate. Upgrading to a 500mb+ read and write SSD will cut your boot time in half. Then the Kronos streams a 9gb Berlin Grand so 500mb SSD speeds read and write over double the performance. But then with the newer 1600mhz ram and motherboard took the Kronos to a new level. 1066mhz to 1600mhz is like comparing old Q6600 mainboard performance vs i7 2600k which was a big leap. Most laptops still run on 1600mhz Intel architecture today. The Kronos 2 and what's under the hood is actually exciting. Perfection as it should have been from the start.. But glad I paid my fair share for R&D.

Benny ray above had a Kronos X and upgraded to a Kronos2 also and agreed saying very well said..