Montage by Yamaha

[aron]

Well the 8 parts are the only ones that work with seamless switching. 8 parts is enough for live especially with polyphony limitations.

Now here's another kicker.... do you think it is "live muting"? Before you say yes, remember that even the Kronos did not have this. I would assume so, but again, don't assume anything.

[Kevin Nolan]

The really weak point of the Montage... and in some extent of the Kronos to is the multitimrallity

Both are 16 channels, but when you dive deep into the Montage, you will find out you can only use 8 parts directly from the instrument..

The Yamaha Tyros 5 has 32 parts multitimbrallity, true its another type of instrument, yet it is double of most other instrumetn and opens up new possibiliities...


Yet, only 8 parts is on the very low side... some people stepped away from teh Jupiter 80 because it only had 10 parts...

Hmm.. - surely that is a matter of subjective taste? The piano has one part -it hasn't stopped anyone being creative.

And - the Jupiter 80 is not limited to 10 parts. At the top level it uses a Registration which incorporates 4 Livesets. Two of those livesets are composed of up to 4 tones, each potentially a synthesizer with three discrete Partials (where a Partial is a complete synthesizer with VCO, VCF, VCA, LFO, Envs,..). The Solo and Percussion Livesets can similarly be a Tone with 3 partials. So while you're correct in saying that you can layer 10 Tones, each Tone is three layered synth engines - so that's 24 discrete possible synthesizer sounds layered.


But in any case, tell me - how many sounds do you know - on any album or track that constitutes 8, 16 or 24 layers from a single instrument?


The Tyros is an arranger keyboard - made for people who do not want to invent new sounds but use existing sounds in arrangements. The Kronos, Montage and JP80 are synthesizers, all with more than respectable layering capabilities - and far greater layering than anyone has very used any of them for! I'd also question your argument that the JP80 was stepped away because of it's inability for layering - watch any demo of it and layering and its 256 note polyphony are regarded as its strong points. the JP80 has done quite OK actually, even though it got a hard time over its name. I gave a negative posting on it over on rolandclan that attracted staggering attention - I find the JP80 to be over complicated and it has a bad aliasing problem on its VA PWM wave. Conversely, its Supernatural Acoustic Tones are remarkable, and the rest of its VA is fabulous too (especially its filters which are, in my opinion, to die for).

[SanderXpander]

Someone once told me Enya layers her own voice 400 times :p

Couldn't resist the pot shot, actually I mostly agree with your post. I've never owned a JP80 but I understood that the polyphony was an issue because it was effectively 4x64 which could actually easily cause note cutoffs.

[crazylounyc]

beautiful synth, but is it really worth 4000.00 US for a Montage 8?

$3000 for montage 6
$3500 for montage 7

OMG, Yamaha just got pricey.

[aron]

We are completely back in the 70's.
Top of the line is close to $5000, "affordable" is somewhere around $2000, and there are "cheap" keyboards for $500.

Except (thank you!) there are gems like the $1000 keyboards that save us and are actually really good. My Korg Kross is an amazing sounding keyboard for certain things.... Really great!

Oberheim, Moog, Sequential are back and $$$$

[xp50player]

The flaw in that logic is that a 454cu Corvette cost $5132 in 1970. All keyboards are relatively affordable now.

[aron]

I forgot to add I couldn't afford the high end back then and I still can't afford it now.

OK now back to your point:

> All keyboards are relatively affordable now.

xp50player - are you a gigging musician? I only ask this because you forgot the other part....

We are still getting paid the same amount as back in the 70's - some people not even as much!

Clubs still pay $100 here and actually paid more in the 70's. There are less places to play too. Pretty sad.

My friends still get called to do a gig that's over an hour away for $50. (in California).

[xp50player]

Nope. Only gig occassionally for free. 2:30am loadouts were fun in my 20s, but I enjoy my sleep now.

[aron]

OK, yeah sorry, was just wondering.
Lot of the party bands got replaced by DJs.
There is a lot of one and two man band work. Sometimes trio work, but not as much.
Anyway to get closer to this thread, all this Montage posts got me thinking as to why the EX5 was not popular and I bet if they "remade' it with modern specs and great sounds, it would be a hit.

All that code must be lying around.

I can't wait to hear the new FM on the Montage. I'm sure it will be killer sounding.

[Bachus]

The really weak point of the Montage... and in some extent of the Kronos to is the multitimrallity

Both are 16 channels, but when you dive deep into the Montage, you will find out you can only use 8 parts directly from the instrument..

The Yamaha Tyros 5 has 32 parts multitimbrallity, true its another type of instrument, yet it is double of most other instrumetn and opens up new possibiliities...


Yet, only 8 parts is on the very low side... some people stepped away from teh Jupiter 80 because it only had 10 parts...

Hmm.. - surely that is a matter of subjective taste? The piano has one part -it hasn't stopped anyone being creative.

And - the Jupiter 80 is not limited to 10 parts. At the top level it uses a Registration which incorporates 4 Livesets. Two of those livesets are composed of up to 4 tones, each potentially a synthesizer with three discrete Partials (where a Partial is a complete synthesizer with VCO, VCF, VCA, LFO, Envs,..). The Solo and Percussion Livesets can similarly be a Tone with 3 partials. So while you're correct in saying that you can layer 10 Tones, each Tone is three layered synth engines - so that's 24 discrete possible synthesizer sounds layered.


But in any case, tell me - how many sounds do you know - on any album or track that constitutes 8, 16 or 24 layers from a single instrument?

I am a big fan of layering, use it quit often.. and if you layer several instruments on each midi track, 8 or 16 layers total isnt that much..


But like you said, its highly subjective.. and related to how i do things...

[Kevin Nolan]

Someone once told me Enya layers her own voice 400 times :p

Couldn't resist the pot shot, actually I mostly agree with your post. I've never owned a JP80 but I understood that the polyphony was an issue because it was effectively 4x64 which could actually easily cause note cutoffs.

Ha Ha! - Well spotted SanderXpander. total contradiction on my part - there I was expounding on the number of layers possible in one post, and then I ask who needs them in another one!


Re. Enya - It's actually true! I'm friends with one of her former engineers. For her first albums in the '90s - the process was - 20 takes down onto Sony 32 track digital tape. Bounce down to a second one - and so on to at least 400 takes. No cuting-and-pasting here - 400 live takes to get that famous chorus effect she's so well known for.

I have to say - I'm not fan of Enya - but - she has developed her own sound and that's no mean feat. Anyone who can do that and be successful, as in make millions of people a bit happier through her music, I tip my hat to.

But SanderXpander - I think this will annoy you as someone who appreciates pianos and piano playing. My friend also pointed to Enya having two special rooms in her facility each with a Grand Piano - I believe they were a Steinway Concert Grand in one room and a Bosendorfer Imperial 290 in another. But - when it came to her recording a piano part on one of her pieces featuring piano what was used - a Roland synth of some kind with a piano patch (I believe it was a JD800). I'm a bit sketchy on the actual models I quote here as this story is about 20 years old - but I have to say I personally just could not come to terms with hearing this! How on God's name can you go to the bother of setting up two such stunning piano rooms, and use a sampled piano patch on a track?? Incomprehensible to me!

[SanderXpander]

Haha, well the JD800/JV/XV bright piano can be heard on a number of professional records and kinda became its own sound, like the DX Rhodes. I can't say I'm in love with it but it definitely fit the sound of the early 90s.

But yeah, still a bit painful when you have such luxury around you. Maybe she was terrible and needed quantization and editing?

[Devnor]

It appears Kevin might be right about the polyphony. Here's a Yamaha guy speaking about the Montage in a new video. Listen starting at 0:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubsaeYFU0K0

[EXer]

My friend also pointed to Enya having two special rooms in her facility each with a Grand Piano - I believe they were a Steinway Concert Grand in one room and a Bosendorfer Imperial 290 in another. But - when it came to her recording a piano part on one of her pieces featuring piano what was used - a Roland synth of some kind with a piano patch (I believe it was a JD800).
[...]
How on God's name can you go to the bother of setting up two such stunning piano rooms, and use a sampled piano patch on a track?? Incomprehensible to me!

A real grand piano is great for solo playing and it can stand against a symphonic orchestra, but it would dominate a pop tune mix by far instead of melting into it like a sampled patch does.

[aron]

I hope Kevin is right, but this guy is demo guy. Again, why would you believe him over the guy that programmed the synth?

I mean this is like Jack Hotop or Jerry Kovarsky saying it has 128 stereo and then you believing Joe Smoe demoing over them.