Montage a Kronos / Oasys Rip off?

kbrkr · Post by **kbrkr** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:36 pm

I've been checking the competition with the announcement of the new Montage synth and by golly, the control surfaces look a heck of a lot like the Oasys. The new "Motion Synth" behaves just like Karma, they have added smooth sound transition from one voice to another, Setlist function, and have added a second sound engine in the a FMX added to AWM2.

Sounds like they are trying to catch up to the K2 which is leap years ahead. The only thing a see original in the new synth is the SOUND KNOB and how it merges/morphs the two engines.

Not very original in my opinion.

marc1 · Post by **marc1** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:50 pm

Unfortunately I have to agree to some extent.. only that I think, they're trying to compete with Jupiter 80 and they mix elements from both Kronos and Jupiter. Well, there are no new things under the sun, so, this development kind of seemed predictable. But as some others have pointed out, I think they could have done better.

On the other hand, five years on and the Kronos still goes strong.
And I think it will last that way for another five years. Let's see.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:14 pm

Imitation is flattery. Yamaha really needed to show something other than a new color XF.

It would be a sort of boring NAMM without an interesting board from the Big 3.

$4000 for an 88 is hefty , of course. I still recall paying $2995 ( 4 yrs ago) for my Kronos 88.

So the Montage is a commitment and I think we are going to see many more used XS/XF's in the used market over the next 6/12 months.

The Kronos still shines. No doubt about it

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:06 pm

I have read the pdf manual of Montage : IMHO a very far from exciting product ... Yamaha could have done much much better. No inovative at all

timbukktwo · Post by **timbukktwo** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:10 pm

You know (-and NOT to knock the competition-) but after some people were complaining about 'this and that' with the Kronos (outside of true problems some were having), I think we're starting to understand just how advanced the Kronos really is. Not mostly about what's in the Kronos, but moreso how it seamlessly works together and for the most part, reliably. The integration of how everything works together is nothing short of amazing. Every feature the Kronos has is at a very high level of quality, as well, across the board. We don't always get what we want, but there's alot there already. The Kronos is a tough board to compete with, that's for sure (hence, the similarities from the competition- [What an Honor!])! There can and will be new advancements to technology with current products and new ones being introduced, but the next step from the Kronos will be a hearty one! Thank you, Korg, for all your hard work! I just can't thank you enough!- T.

spaceman3 · Post by **spaceman3** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:14 pm

That multi color sound knob seems to be yamahas take on the KRONOS vector joystick, except the knob doesnt seem to really do that many usefull things.
I still love alot of yamaha products, but i have to say the montage is a flop as an all in one do everything magical workstation.
KRONOS is an all in one do everything magical workstation.
YAMAHA sais Montage is MOTIF XF replacement.
Yamaha must have lost thier minds making that statement.
The more i hear, see, and know what MONTAGE cannot do.
The less i like it.
Probably the worst thing about it is that big sticking out nipple knob.
If this synth is selling for big workstation bucks,YAMAHA isnt going to sell many of them.
Then again, it did have some good sounds.
Its just when i was hearing KRONOS for the first time, i didnt have to wait as long for something to catch my ear.
It seems with the MONTAGE, i had to listen to more content 10 or 15 videos.
I guess if one was using MONTAGE as a performance synth, or solely with a computer for recording, then it would be a great synth.
Perhaps YAMAHA will sell alot of these synths.
It just isnt for me.

jeebustrain · Post by **jeebustrain** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:45 pm

it's what - a knob that you can assign multiple things to it? How is that innovative?

Montage = snore.

OB-6 on the other hand.... I just put in my pre-order about an hour ago

kbrkr · Post by **kbrkr** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:09 am

OB-6 on the other hand.... I just put in my pre-order about an hour ago Smile

You said it; That synth sounds sick - I collaboration of Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim. I want!!!!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:51 am

I don't get the multiknob either, it seems to me on Kronos you can do this with all the real time controls, the VJS, ribbon, switches, aftertouch, velocity etc. unless I'm misunderstanding.

Other than that I'm glad they at least stepped marginally away from Motif.

DaveKeys · Post by **DaveKeys** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:02 pm

I thought Yamaha would come up with something new and sexy, but it has a really dull look about it that you might find on an early 90's SY synth.

For all I know, the tech and sounds underneath may be revolutionary, but instrument has to be inspiring to play, aesthetically as well as aurally pleasing. It just doesn't leap out at me and say 'buy me', like the Kronos did, or the RD did for me.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:37 pm

i've read the manual and watched all the demo's, to me it seems like a modernized Motif with a touch screen and an extra FM synthesizer.

The Performance part is quite upgraded, you can now choose out over more then 10.000 arpeggiator patterns and each performance part can consist out of 8 arp patterns at the same time. Also there are 8 motion controllers for your complete performance which you can apply to every parameter.

The Superknob is not that special as they try to make it, we have it in the kronos with the AMS system (which is also more powerful then the motion controllers, because we can use a lot more then 8 at the same time). The superknob can control multiple parameters at the same time, but so can the nord lead morph function or the kronos AMS functions connected to the modwheel or one of the other controls that we have available.

if you compare it to the kronos then i would say that it's more or less compatible to a kronos with only a HD-1 and Mod 7 engine.

But the good part is, is that the motif has quite a large user base and that it's used a lot in bands, so with the montage they enter the modern world of touch screens and onboard memory.

Also the DAW integration is of course way better then the kronos solution. Audio and midi over usb, the 64 bits daw editor with total recall outshines the kronos weak part of daw integration.

Based on the numerous demos that are available i also think that the included performance presets are more aimed at the modern type of music. The standard sidechain feature and the stronger dance drums seems to be default available. Of course the kronos can do this too, but the user has to do it himself, and not everyone has the time or knowledge to add the dance drums or new patterns themself.

So since it's in the same price range i would prefer the kronos because it can do a lot more. But the more modern approach could make the montage a very succesful product in my opinion. And i'm glad to see that yamaha finaly has a (sleightly more limited) answer to the kronos which is good for the competition and innovation.

just my 2 cents

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:51 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I don't get the multiknob either, it seems to me on Kronos you can do this with all the real time controls, the VJS, ribbon, switches, aftertouch, velocity etc. unless I'm misunderstanding.

Other than that I'm glad they at least stepped marginally away from Motif.

The Super Knob seems to be a convenient way of turning all other 8 knobs at the same time. You can use the same controller for multiple parameters on the Kronos and accomplish the same thing although maybe with more effort. Nice little feature though.

The Super Knob does something with the motion sequencer too but I don't know details.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:30 pm

Motion sequencing is definitely nice although something of a niche feature. I THINK we can do something similar with the VJS but I don't really know if you can record your own motion or if it works with preset patterns or an LFO.

8 operator FM is nice, the interface didn't look freely patchable like on Kronos but at the same time a few "standard" setups are nice. I'm also really glad they finally put in a touch screen. I always find myself uselessly poking at the big colored screens of Motifs and Fantoms.

Corch · Post by **Corch** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:28 pm

The Montage is a wonderful instrument. And like many already said, especially for the Motif owners/players.

But I guess it's an instrument you can't compare with the Kronos for what I've heard so far. Just like you can't compare the Kronos with the Nord Stage 2. It's like comparing a performance synth with a workstation and a stage piano. Three different worlds.

I'm not sure whether Yamaha intended that. And I'm also not sure whether that is a compliment for the Montage.

Anyways, I guess we're gonna see the Montage on lots of stages and will inspire many musicians while playing it. But I'm still the most lucky guy in the world with the Kronos

UPDATE:
The flashing of the super-knob can be turned down. I saw it in a demo on YouTube. Not sure which one. But it can be turned off.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:30 pm

Can't sensibly comment until I've played one BUT I don't think I could stand looking at its glowing pulsating SuperKnob all night - why did they do that?
Why does it have to flash?

Seen just the one SoncState NAMM demo and am not too impressed so far but will look out for better demos.

Hmmmm. well Kronos doesn't have a SuperKnob, so there.....

Pete