Direct box really necessary?

mindsear · Post by **mindsear** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:30 am

Since the Kronos has a pair of balanced line +4 outputs - what purpose would a Direct box serve other than using the ground lift (for hum- which should not be present in a balanced line) and protecting from phantom power (and is that really an issue?)

Has anyone used balanced lines (no DI -just direct to the snake) in a live situation successfully and what if any problems have you encountered?

Are we just so used to using DI's that we naturally assume that we have to use them? otherwise why would Korg put them in the Kronos?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:16 am

Splitting the output is useful. And protection from whatever BS is on the other end of the line is a good enough reason for me. I don't think I've ever needed to lift ground, so far.

coyote144 · Post by **coyote144** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:44 am

on stage, I have played most of the time with DI. But I already played with balanced outputs directely plugged in the mixer, with no problem. Of course in this cas, balanced jack cables are required.

Corch · Post by **Corch** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:26 am

That's a good question.

I play with a Motu 828 MK3 which has balanced XLR outs. In all of my bands I play directly out of those outs. So I've stopped using DI's for about almost 3yrs.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:53 pm

DI's are always a good idea in a live situation, in my opinion. Just running balanced does not mean you won't still have ground loop issues. Ground loops occur when the ground potential is different between devices, which is most likely over long distances when devices are plugged into different circuits. It has nothing to do with balanced. Balanced signals reduce noise picked up along the way because it's common mode and cancels out. I'll run balanced with no DI if I'm running into something that can be plugged into the same circuit, but if I'm running through a snake to FOH, I always use a DI.

mindsear · Post by **mindsear** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:28 pm

So I did an A/B in my studio using 1/4" TRS to XLR into the mixer. also a 1/4" TS into a DI and XLR to the same channel. Significant gain loss using the DI (expected). Even turned on the phantom power (when connected with just the TRS to XLR) to see if my KRONOS would implode. (it didn't- and there were no noticeable noise /hum /gremlins)

Bass and guitar players have been using the XLR out of their heads (or racks) for years. AXE FX II and Line 6 POD / Helix units work perfectly fine just using an XLR to the snake. Just sayin'

I'm going to live on the edge and just run direct to the snake from the KRONOS. IF I run into problems I can always revert back to the RADIAL DI's
that I've used for years.

Roundandaround · Post by **Roundandaround** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:03 pm

Talking about gain loss... It's normal when you use a DI, but I was looking for a good DI to go with my Kronos and I've bought a Palmer PAN 04 Stereo DI Box Passive, which has amazing reviews. However, it reduces the the gain in such a way that it can hardly be compensated by the FOH, even when I turn the volume knob up as high as possible - live use is almost impossible. Has anybody else hit on the same problem? It does not occur when I use cheaper DIs, though.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:01 pm

Thing is, it will depend on the room. Some rooms may be fine, others horrible depending on their wiring. The safe thing is to always run a DI. The alternative is occasionally you go do do sound check and the sound guy says "I'm getting a really bad hum from the keyboard", then you have to halt sound check, get out your DI, swap cables, and resume. Maybe not a big deal, but that could happen on the day when so,etching else went wrong prior and your trying to get a quick sound check in at the last minute. For me, I'd rather have a consistent set up that is guaranteed to be problem free everywhere I go. Lower level is not a problem, that's why mixers have gain knobs. In fact, running TRS to XLR if anything may be too hot for many mic inputs and they'll be asking you to turn down.

JONLIBRA · Post by **JONLIBRA** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:20 pm

I've learned that using Di box is safer when my outputs died a month ago at a gig. I was wondering if using a small mixer would be better than Di. Any advice?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:51 pm

For the purpose, no. A small mixer has no ground lift and could itself be fried by whatever is on the other end of the line.

JONLIBRA · Post by **JONLIBRA** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:01 pm

Thank you Sander!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:09 pm

I have both, by the way, they're equally useful, just for different things

DocBambs · Post by **DocBambs** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:07 pm

I have used a DI box but usually use an isolator. I use Orchid units :

http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/dual_isolator.htm

but there are others available.

Thanks

DB

DanielD71 · Post by **DanielD71** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:27 pm

I use the radial proD2. No more problem with ground loop issue.

Regards

amit · Post by **amit** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:39 pm

DI box is a No brainer if you want to get actual guitars into kronos.

I use the Di box for input impedance matching for my guitars or bass for internal effects as well as my tube pedals (processing synth output through real tubes).

I also use it to tame (pad) the high output level of my AMP into kronos.