I need a simple and basic karma pattern!!

salomao · Post by **salomao** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:39 pm

Hello All

I'm driving nuts trying to use a very simple and basic rythm effect.

I need a syhth bass sound to be played in groups of sixteenths. Just that! No transpositions, no harpeggiator, no accents or effects! The problem is I can't find such a basic karma pattern.

The closest thing I could find was the "Dr Chopper 1" (under the gated tab) but even that is too complex because it has accent effects that I don't want at all.

Tryed to edit that karma module but couldn't get what I want.

The effect I want is very simple and can be heard in the verse of Katy Perry song "Hot N Cold".

Any help will be very apreciated

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:32 pm

I needed this for the same thing and while it is possible to quickly adapt an existing pattern, you're left with a problem: the Karma keyboard scanning that determines which notes to play based on what keys you hold doesn't work entirely correctly for basic arpeggios. In effect, if you play a higher note than the one before, and you bind them (legato) the you normally would when you're using a continuing arp, Karma doesn't pick up. When you bind towards a lower note, it does pick up. It's completely ridiculous but there is no good way of doing this with Karma. I would suggest PolySix maybe? It has a basic arpeggiator that works exactly the way you expect. Personally I gave up and the guitar player now plays that pattern.

tomto66 · Post by **tomto66** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:06 pm

I would assume the Karma software would allow you to create a custom GE for that? I just got the software and started playing with it - not entirely sure it can be done, but willing to take a stab. If you can point me to a sample of what you want (or score) I'll gladly take a look at it. If I can make it work I'll gladly share the custom GE.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:24 pm

Somewhat it can't be done, after discussion with Qui Robinez and Stephen Kay himself. As I said, it's relatively easy to get KARMA to behave ALMOST like a normal arpeggiator (even without the software) but the key scanning thing is part of the internal stuff.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:52 pm

Cannot it be achieved with wave sequencing or RPPR? See no obstacles in creating just any pattern there.

salomao · Post by **salomao** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:01 am

Aziz1008 wrote:Cannot it be achieved with wave sequencing or RPPR? See no obstacles in creating just any pattern there.

Of course I could record a track in sequencer and play it live, but then there would be synch problems with my drummer. I would have to press the play button in the exact moment, and that could be tricky...

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:07 am

SanderXpander wrote:I needed this for the same thing and while it is possible to quickly adapt an existing pattern, you're left with a problem: the Karma keyboard scanning that determines which notes to play based on what keys you hold doesn't work entirely correctly for basic arpeggios. In effect, if you play a higher note than the one before, and you bind them (legato) the you normally would when you're using a continuing arp, Karma doesn't pick up. When you bind towards a lower note, it does pick up. It's completely ridiculous but there is no good way of doing this with Karma. I would suggest PolySix maybe? It has a basic arpeggiator that works exactly the way you expect. Personally I gave up and the guitar player now plays that pattern.

I'm not sure this is correct. You should try turning on the "Update On Release" checkbox on the KARMA Trigger page and see if that makes a difference. Or, if you could give me an example of using a specific GE for this and why it doesn't do what you think it should, I could take a look at it.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:07 am

salomao wrote:
Aziz1008 wrote:Cannot it be achieved with wave sequencing or RPPR? See no obstacles in creating just any pattern there.
Of course I could record a track in sequencer and play it live, but then there would be synch problems with my drummer. I would have to press the play button in the exact moment, and that could be tricky...

If you are going to use KARMA and need 16th notes, then your drummer is still going to need to be in time, regardless of using an arp, seq or KARMA pattern. Unless you PLAY the 16th, just like any other rhythmic figure in a song. You can set up KARMA to stop and retrigger patterns, but if your drummers BPMs are way off the mark, it's never gonna work. I tried doing "Hella Good" by No Doubt in this way, but the drummer just couldn't lock. And forget trying yo adjust with tap tempo live- that can be a disaster!

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:11 am

salomao wrote:Hello All

I'm driving nuts trying to use a very simple and basic rythm effect.

I need a syhth bass sound to be played in groups of sixteenths. Just that! No transpositions, no harpeggiator, no accents or effects! The problem is I can't find such a basic karma pattern.

The closest thing I could find was the "Dr Chopper 1" (under the gated tab) but even that is too complex because it has accent effects that I don't want at all.

Tryed to edit that karma module but couldn't get what I want.

The effect I want is very simple and can be heard in the verse of Katy Perry song "Hot N Cold".

I'm not going to go find this track to listen to it, so if you want to post an example of what you want I *will* listen to it.

In most KARMA GEs, you can easily get rid of the accents by changing the Velocity Slider in the KARMA GE page (usually slider 4).

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:02 am

StephenKay wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:I needed this for the same thing and while it is possible to quickly adapt an existing pattern, you're left with a problem: the Karma keyboard scanning that determines which notes to play based on what keys you hold doesn't work entirely correctly for basic arpeggios. In effect, if you play a higher note than the one before, and you bind them (legato) the you normally would when you're using a continuing arp, Karma doesn't pick up. When you bind towards a lower note, it does pick up. It's completely ridiculous but there is no good way of doing this with Karma. I would suggest PolySix maybe? It has a basic arpeggiator that works exactly the way you expect. Personally I gave up and the guitar player now plays that pattern.
I'm not sure this is correct. You should try turning on the "Update On Release" checkbox on the KARMA Trigger page and see if that makes a difference. Or, if you could give me an example of using a specific GE for this and why it doesn't do what you think it should, I could take a look at it.

The way I would like this to work, and the way a regular arpeggiator works, is that it stops when I release the keyboard completely and it keeps running in time as long as I have a key depressed. This allows me to reset timing if I hit it wrong initially. From the various combinations of latching and update on release, I never could make it work this way. Update on release reset the timing for instance, meaning I would have to time my releases exactly.

That's a very friendly offer by the way. It's really quite simple, "we" just want a pattern that plays straight sixteenths on whatever note you hold (can be monophonic) and that keeps time when switching to another note, but restarts the clock when you let go of the keyboard completely and start playing again. If I remember tonight I will save my efforts into a PCG and send it to you. Can I mail you directly?

tomto66 · Post by **tomto66** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:06 am

Sander, isn't what you're describing nothing more than the Karma latch function?

salomao · Post by **salomao** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:23 am

Hello all

Let's make it more clear.

What I want is to play that:

I mean, I want to press the G key and my keyboard play 16 (or as many as I want) sixtheents. Then press the D key and get the same result, and so on.

That's all. No chords, nor harpeggiators, no accents, sound effects, nothing!

The sample can be heard here: https://soundcloud.com/salom-o-abreu/ho ... -london-20

ABOUT THE DRUM SYNC:

Of course I have to be synced with my drummer, so we have to be in the same bpm. However, pressinf the "play" button on my kronos in the exact moment is tryckier than pressing a keyboard key. Even more important, if I play a track in sequencer and something goes wrong, I won't be able to fix anything (either have to stop the sequencer or let it play until the end...). Using karma, I can fix it at any time by releasing the key and pressing it anytime I want. That's why I don't want to use the sequencer at all.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:14 pm

tomto66 wrote:Sander, isn't what you're describing nothing more than the Karma latch function?

Nope.
I think Salomao described it very well but last time I dove in and got help, the conclusion was that it doesn't work the way I need it to.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:10 pm

It seems to me that you are all looking at this the wrong way. No offense intended here at all.
Why don't you just use the Polysix arpeggiator. Set the range to one octave up or down, not up and down. Set the base note to a sixteenth note and set the tempo to what ever you want.
This way you can easily program the type of sound that you want as well if you can't find one like it in your Kronos.
The Polysix is really easy to work with.
This way you just get the repeated notes for as long as you want without any accents.
I tried this here in my studio and it took me about 30 seconds to get what I think you want.

Hope this helps!

salomao · Post by **salomao** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:10 pm

jeremykeys wrote:It seems to me that you are all looking at this the wrong way. No offense intended here at all.
Why don't you just use the Polysix arpeggiator. Set the range to one octave up or down, not up and down. Set the base note to a sixteenth note and set the tempo to what ever you want.
This way you can easily program the type of sound that you want as well if you can't find one like it in your Kronos.
The Polysix is really easy to work with.
This way you just get the repeated notes for as long as you want without any accents.
I tried this here in my studio and it took me about 30 seconds to get what I think you want.

Hope this helps!

Sorry for beeing such a noob, but I don't know hot to use Polysix. Could you give an hand here? (tell me the basic steps)

Thank you

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I need a simple and basic karma pattern!!

I need a simple and basic karma pattern!!

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