ESX instead of Octatrack?

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:10 pm

Friends at the forum,

I'm a frequent user of the Octatrack, loving it for what it is. But I've always looked at the red ESX and wondered if that doesn't suit me better. I'm not particularly fond of the Octatrack's sound, it's not bad at all but it's the workflow and the possibilities that keep me with the Octa, not the way it sings. In comparison, I much more like how the Analog Rytm sounds, for example.

Now - I'm thinking about getting an ESX instead. Most would laugh at me, calling this only a downgrade in all ways you can imagine, but I don't know. Here's what I'm thinking, and I would like to hear opinions from anyone who's experienced with both or just have an opinion no matter what.

I use the Octa mainly for putting tracks together, as in complete songs. I don't own a DAW.

I don't work much with slices, rather single one shots and loops. I don't time stretch much, most of my samples are recorded at the intended BPM and I'd rather re-record them than meddle with time stretch.

I don't use the Octatrack's MIDI sequencer unless it's for creating sequences from external instruments which I then sample into the Octa.

I use the Scenes A LOT. I also use the Delay Control more than good taste calls for.

I almost always use Track 8 as a master effect track, and much of the Scene stuff is done here.

For fx, I mainly use delay, plate and dark reverb, chorus, lo-fi, compressor and the Eq. The rest I can't be bothered with.

I frequently wish the Octatrack had 12 tracks instead of just 8. Or 10, even. Yes, that would do.

I use recorder triggers A LOT for live recording. I don't sequence much, but play and replay until I've nailed it. I'm pretty sure the ESX can't do this and I know I'm gonna miss it, but there was a world before recorder triggers and good music was made in that world. So I figure, what the hell.

As you can see, there's a lot of stuff in the Octa I don't use, and like all other Octatrack warriors, we all have different techniques for the instrument.

Given the above, and that I'm looking for something that SOUNDS better than the Octatrack, could the ESX be an option?

Ted3000 · Post by **Ted3000** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:18 pm

ESX is noisy. It's noise floor is very high. It's simply not a good studio piece, but fun and fine for some live stuff.

ESX has absolutely terrible reverb - sounds like wind through a tin can.

ESX compressor is extremely rough and unpolished and hard to tame.

Octatrack runs rings around the ESX for quality, but it does have its fans. They probably can't afford an OT.

If your beef is with the OT's sound, I'm not sure what would be better. If you're after a slightly lower-quality sound, cheaper effects, and higher noise floor, then ESX might be for you. But the ESX isn't so primitive as to be lo-fi enough to qualify as vintage, like an old low-samplerate 90's MPC.

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Mon May 11, 2015 12:54 am

Ted3000 wrote:ESX is noisy. It's noise floor is very high. It's simply not a good studio piece, but fun and fine for some live stuff.

ESX has absolutely terrible reverb - sounds like wind through a tin can.

ESX compressor is extremely rough and unpolished and hard to tame.

Octatrack runs rings around the ESX for quality, but it does have its fans. They probably can't afford an OT.

If your beef is with the OT's sound, I'm not sure what would be better. If you're after a slightly lower-quality sound, cheaper effects, and higher noise floor, then ESX might be for you. But the ESX isn't so primitive as to be lo-fi enough to qualify as vintage, like an old low-samplerate 90's MPC.

ESX a is noisy, but better tubes help. There's also a tube bypass mod that purportedly gets the noise floor on par with better gear.

Reverb is terrible, compressor isn't useless but it's a one trick pony for sure.

They're both samplers so other than the noise floor, if sound quality is your beef you need better samples. That said the ESX is not anything like the octatrack. It is however much cheaper so if I was you I'd just keep the OT and buy an ESX. If you hate it flip it for what you paid. Or wait a bit and see what the new E2S can do, if they let you have 16 loop parts and it does realtime sampling and looping, the OT may have some serious competition, though the sample time will be limiting. Same for the ESX, you don't get nearly the sample time of the OT and you can't stream from the card. Electribe samplers have alwasys been more of the drum machine and slice type of boxes, not phrase samplers.

Maybe look at the roland/boss SP series....

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Mon May 11, 2015 6:40 am

In my extensive use of the ESX live and as a scratchpad, and in my research on the Octatrack, I *swear* that Elektron watched all of my ESX tutorial videos and made a standalone unit that addresses and implements all of my unique workarounds and techniques.

Lol, perhaps I just have delusions of grandeur.. but it the Octa natively acts uncannily like the beast I have to force my ESX into.

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Mon May 11, 2015 7:14 am

Thanks for the advise.

I was under the impression that the ESX has a nice warm sound to it, that gave your tracks a bit of a vintage vibe to it. It seems I was wrong.

When saying that I don't like the way the Octatrack sounds, I mean specifically what you can do with the samples in terms of filter, the amp section and so on. I also use an Analog Rytm extensively, and once you've worked with the samples within that instrument, they come out a whole lot warmer, rounder and fatter.

Now, the Octatrack sounds great, it's not that. It's just that I'm after a specific type of sound, the warmer vintage broken sound, and I'm looking for a companion to my Analog Rytm that can get me there. My final output rig consists of two instruments - the Rytm and the Octatrack. But I'm looking to replace the Octatrack with something that's closer to the Rytm in character and nature.

Ironically, I have an ES-1 and I'm experimenting with that now. It does something with its samples that appeals to me more than most others I've tried. So there's something in every hardware that does something, and I'm looking for that something that's not the Octatrack.

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Mon May 11, 2015 7:28 am

Like I said, try it out. I love my ESX, the noise floor hasn't bothered me enough to try to do the tube bypass mod, and it can probably be more gritty than the OT. Now as you see in this thread, wether that grit appeals to you or not is a personal thing so you'll just have to try it for yourself, if you think you can live within its limitations. The fx aren't great but you do get 4 outputs so routing a few sounds out to external fx isn't a big deal.

jim555 · Post by **jim555** » Mon May 11, 2015 7:58 am

Before I got my Octatrack, I researched the ESX. As posters on this thead has said, the effects suck. And overall sound is noisy. I thought my Akai S-2000 that I was trying to replace sounded better.

I'm not sure why you don't like the sound of the Octatrack. If I want a warm sound, I sample a warm sound and it plays back that warm sound.

If you really want something that sounds like the Rythm, why not just get another Rythm?

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Mon May 11, 2015 10:13 am

I guess it's more a matter of liking the sound of the Rytm more, rather than the Octatrack not sounding good. It sounds great. The Rytm has its compressor and dist going for it, its filters and its amp. To mention a few things which colors the sound very differently from the Octatrack.

It definitely works to record something that sounds great and I always aim to do that. But that's just the beginning. I always continue to develop the sample once it's in the instrument, and the Rytm treats samples more like oscillators, which I prefer. The Octatrack treats samples more like loops and sections of audio. So they're very different.

As for getting another Rytm, it's an expensive option. And it doesn't sample. There's lots of stuff I like with the Octa, but I would prefer a sampler - not just a sample playback instrument - that just does other things with the sound than what the Octatrack does. It truly is a great piece of gear, though, so maybe this is just gearlust clouding my judgment.

However, it's not the first time someone has mentioned Roland's SP-samplers in this context. Maybe that could be an option.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Mon May 11, 2015 11:42 am

You may want to have a look at the Yamaha su700 as well. It's a strange beast, and I find its sound somewhat lo-fi - in a good way. You can probably get it for cheap, but be aware that faulty knobs are a very common problem in these units. It is fixable, though. I think it's a cool box, but I wouldn't rely solely on it. I would definately see how the Electribe 2 Sampler turns out before deciding.

tim from texas · Post by **tim from texas** » Mon May 11, 2015 4:43 pm

I always get super excited and want an octatrack when people post about how great they are... and then i read the specs, and want one even MORE.. then i see how much they are and realize you get all those functions at a cost.. I would love to own one but music is my side, side hobby so rationalizing a $1,300 sampler just isnt happening.. and i would prolly still enjoy an emx and esx working together just as much and would have still spent half the cost..

Have you tried running your octatrack through an old sampler (sp202 or sp303) to get that sound youre looking for? or even an older guitar pedal or effects processor.. i think some even have tubes..

TechnoMusic · Post by **TechnoMusic** » Tue May 12, 2015 11:59 pm

Counterpoint, the octatrack is a pain in the ass to use, its got far too much menu jumping and the ESX is a far better drum machine style sampler with a more hands on interface IMHO. Also if you want a better reverb put the extra channels through a desk with a pro reverb.

If I could only have one sampler Id have my MPC1000, but my favorite for straight up techno is the analog RYTM.

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:50 am

tim from texas wrote:I always get super excited and want an octatrack when people post about how great they are... and then i read the specs, and want one even MORE.. then i see how much they are and realize you get all those functions at a cost.. I would love to own one but music is my side, side hobby so rationalizing a $1,300 sampler just isnt happening.. and i would prolly still enjoy an emx and esx working together just as much and would have still spent half the cost..

Have you tried running your octatrack through an old sampler (sp202 or sp303) to get that sound youre looking for? or even an older guitar pedal or effects processor.. i think some even have tubes..

Actually, I've got two Minifooger Drive pedals. I've used those before to get a tube vintage broken vinyl sound, though only with pure analog equipment. I should try that with the Octa, though. Thanks for the advise.

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:59 am

TechnoMusic wrote:Counterpoint, the octatrack is a pain in the ass to use, its got far too much menu jumping and the ESX is a far better drum machine style sampler with a more hands on interface IMHO. Also if you want a better reverb put the extra channels through a desk with a pro reverb.

If I could only have one sampler Id have my MPC1000, but my favorite for straight up techno is the analog RYTM.

Well, that's the thing. I like the immediacy of the ESX, and as for sound quality, I don't know, how bad can it be? I'm enjoying the ES-1 quite a lot and mostly work with pretty dry sound anyway, so as long as the clean actual output is okay, I can work with whatever.

The Rytm is my absolute favourite, and while the Octatrack is very powerful, I need something more direct to team up with the Rytm. Even if I could afford another Rytm, which is never gonna happen, I think there's something to be said for variation and versatility, especially in a very small rig.

circuitghost · Post by **circuitghost** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:04 am

Hugo wrote:You may want to have a look at the Yamaha su700 as well. It's a strange beast, and I find its sound somewhat lo-fi - in a good way. You can probably get it for cheap, but be aware that faulty knobs are a very common problem in these units. It is fixable, though. I think it's a cool box, but I wouldn't rely solely on it. I would definately see how the Electribe 2 Sampler turns out before deciding.

Thanks. Checked it out. It's perhaps a bit too limited, given its age. I've already got an ES-1 and it sounds great for what I'm after. Got it cheap from someone who stopped appreciate it years ago.

Actually, I think I'll go for an ESX.

However, in Sweden at least, they've recently gone up in price, as have the EMX. It's like a 50-100% increase, depending on how quickly the seller wants to get rid of the unit. But about a year ago, you could get a Smart Media-ESX for about 2000SeK (roughly 170USdollars or about 200Euro). Now, they go for almost twice that sometimes, when they're out - which they almost never are.

I don't know. I wonder if the latest Electribes have created a surge for the previous versions. It's like the brilliance of the EMX and the ESX becoming more obvious in the light of the new Tribes. Which I like, it's just they're so different, so perhaps the traits of the older ones become more appreciated now that you've got something to compare them to.

sauce · Post by **sauce** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:16 am

circuitghost wrote:Actually, I think I'll go for an ESX.

Nice. When you do, my tutorials on YouTube are absolutely *not* like anyone else's, and I can help you get your ESX as close to an Octa in functionality as possible:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 7500B6FCA0