Second SSD and the EXs autorization

[Francois]

I don't have a problem with the Kronos being a closed system, so long as it comes with what's needed as standard.

For example, the original SSD was so small at 30 Gb that you couldn't install all Korg and KARO libraries! And supposing you activated all Korg libraries (including the biggies EXS-11 and 12) the standard 1Gb RAM was not enough to load them! Just read the forum threads of the time to see how many people moaned about this.

Right now, I don't feel the need to add anything to my Kronos. The 2 Go RAM is sufficient to load what I need to load, the SSD is big enough that it will last the lifetime of the synth, the operation is virtually silent due to the special fan, and I can transfer files via wifi from my PC to the Kronos. The only shame is that I had to add this myself.

Finally, it matters less for me because I can do this sort of stuff without damaging my synth, but how many Kronos buyers can say the same? And service centres have their limitations too, in that there are things they won't do, like changing the fan.

[danatkorg]

Interesting point of view Dan.

So, you did not have to do it yourself, as you write. In fact, you were very much not supposed to do so.

No, at the time, there was no option to have extra items installed by the local service centre/importer. This was offered later. I may have been able to have a service centre add a RAM module, but changing the SSD was a big no-no when I queried this in the UK, let alone changing the fan.

Software changes were made to support installing a second SSD. When that software was released, the option to install a second SSD was made available. Conversely, if the option was not available, the software did not support it (and you may have run into problems, obvious or subtle, because of that). I stand by my comments above.

Figuring out the sweet spot, and determining if a minority of users really need extra capabilities

This is where I think Korg had it completely wrong at the outset, a fact supported by the X being sold with the maximum RAM and larger SSD as standard. I know you cannot admint to this in public, but let's face it, everybody here agrees that the X is what the Kronos should have been to start with.

If we "had it completely wrong" with the sweet spot, then we wouldn't have sold any, would we? In fact, the original KRONOS was gratifyingly successful. It also worked, and for many users still works, quite well with the original configuration of RAM and SSD. (Note that the high proportion of upgraders here on Korg Forums is one of the ways in which internet forums do not necessarily represent the user-base as a whole).

A year and a half after the introduction of the KRONOS, we introduced the KRONOS X. Various things had happened in that time, including the success of the original KRONOS (strengthening the position for successor products), changes in component availability and pricing, and a marked increase in the amount of sample-based libraries available for the KRONOS (increasing the desirability of more RAM and SSD space). Due to these changing factors, it was judged that a small price increase was acceptable in order to offer the KRONOS X's expanded RAM and SSD.

the factory configuration sets the price for everyone

True. But Korg should be able to cater for various needs and sell its synth like computers where you can order different CPU, RAM, drive size, etc. Perhaps not for all models, but certainly for the high end. Everybody offers options, why not Korg?
I'm looking forward to the day where I can buy a Kronos online like I can buy a Mac, and specify what I want in it.

A better question would be: why do none of the major synthesizer manufacturers offer custom configurations (since this is common to the industry as a whole, not isolated to Korg)? Even Yamaha, who support special orders with other product lines (such as drums) don't do so with synths. You write that "everybody offers options," but in fact with synths the opposite is true. There are a few different reasons for this:

* Production. Products made one-by-one are well-suited to individual customization; this applies to high-end guitars and drums, for instance, as well as ultra-high-end electronics such as large-format mixing consoles. On the other hand, products made in very large quantities, such as mass-market computers, can use mass-production techniques for each of a series of configurations, manufacture continuously so that quantities of specific configurations can be adjusted to accomodate demand, warehouse in quantities that allow immediate shipment in response to customer orders, use economies of scale to deliver options at only modest premiums over retail (note that aftermarket retail upgrades are still generally cheaper, sometimes significantly so) and so on. Most electronic musical instruments fall squarely in the middle: they aren't made one-by-one, but the quantities are much, much, much smaller than those of mass-market consumer electronics, and thus don't benefit from mass-market advantages.

* Distribution. Brick-and-mortar stores are still a very important part of musical instrument sales. Stores have limited amounts of money to spend on stock, limited warehouse space, and limited floor space. Those factors serve to limit the SKUs carried by any given store, and function in direct opposition to the idea of customization. Note for instance that Apple provides a much larger array of configurations through their website than in their retail stores.

* Cost. As noted in my previous post, musical instrument companies operate on different margins than mass-market consumer electronics companies. Even with Apple, whose margins are quite thin compared to the synth market, people often complain about factory-installed RAM and drives being overpriced.

This is as much as I can say without getting into proprietary information, but it offers at least the gist of the story.

None of this is to say that customization cannot ever happen. There are some examples from the past of special, expensive sampler configurations from Emu and Kurzweil, for instance. Conditions may change to obviate some of the concerns above. For now, however, that's the general picture.

[degaffman]

Honest opinions about the gear are always welcome, as I made very clear in my previous post. RAM and SSD upgrades are offered by Korg and our registered service centers, so I don't see that you were forced to do those yourself. Perhaps your primary concern is about the fan?

Dan, one thing that drives users to do their own upgrade installations is not having an authorized service center nearby. Shipping a keyboard is a risky act - I don't know how many times over my 30 years of buying/selling keyboards I've had a keyboard damaged during shipping with the keyboard in it's original packaging. Not to mention the additional high cost of shipping a large heavy keyboard to and from a service center.

[degaffman]

Honest opinions about the gear are always welcome, as I made very clear in my previous post. RAM and SSD upgrades are offered by Korg and our registered service centers, so I don't see that you were forced to do those yourself. Perhaps your primary concern is about the fan?

Dan, one thing that drives users to do their own upgrade installations is not having an authorized service center nearby. Shipping a keyboard is a risky act - I don't know how many times over my 30 years of buying/selling keyboards I've had a keyboard damaged during shipping with the keyboard in it's original packaging. Not to mention the additional high cost of shipping a large heavy keyboard to and from a service center.

[danatkorg]

Honest opinions about the gear are always welcome, as I made very clear in my previous post. RAM and SSD upgrades are offered by Korg and our registered service centers, so I don't see that you were forced to do those yourself. Perhaps your primary concern is about the fan?

Dan, one thing that drives users to do their own upgrade installations is not having an authorized service center nearby. Shipping a keyboard is a risky act - I don't know how many times over my 30 years of buying/selling keyboards I've had a keyboard damaged during shipping with the keyboard in it's original packaging. Not to mention the additional high cost of shipping a large heavy keyboard to and from a service center.

I appreciate your concern. Judging by your profile location of Mobile, Alabama, your closest Korg service center (according to korgusa.com) is about an hour's drive away (according to Google), in Biloxi:

MISSISSIPPI MUSIC
2744 PASS RD
BILOXI, MS 39531-2626
228-388-6547

So, no need to ship in your case. While I'm sure that service centers are farther away for some, there may often be one closer than you think!

[SanderXpander]

I don't have a problem with the Kronos being a closed system, so long as it comes with what's needed as standard.

For example, the original SSD was so small at 30 Gb that you couldn't install all Korg and KARO libraries! And supposing you activated all Korg libraries (including the biggies EXS-11 and 12) the standard 1Gb RAM was not enough to load them! Just read the forum threads of the time to see how many people moaned about this.

Right now, I don't feel the need to add anything to my Kronos. The 2 Go RAM is sufficient to load what I need to load, the SSD is big enough that it will last the lifetime of the synth, the operation is virtually silent due to the special fan, and I can transfer files via wifi from my PC to the Kronos. The only shame is that I had to add this myself.

Finally, it matters less for me because I can do this sort of stuff without damaging my synth, but how many Kronos buyers can say the same? And service centres have their limitations too, in that there are things they won't do, like changing the fan.

"What is needed" is entirely subjective. You said the SSD isn't big enough to hold all expansions, but in the history of synths there have almost invariably been more sample expansions available than one synth can hold. The real issue is that you perceive the Kronos to be a computer and handled the situation accordingly. I'm not judging, I went the same way. But I'm glad that's where it stopped. My second SSD is virtually empty. I have the strings and piano expansions from Korg and I loaded a whole bunch of stuff from Busch's forum. But honestly, the only thing I'd really miss is his clavinet if I suddenly had to go back to a non-X spec. And I could probably unload the Japanese Grand and find a lot of RAM there. With streaming, having 300MB available is a LOT.

I get the original price point and we used to get people on here almost daily when the X came out, complaining it was so much more expensive "for just an SSD and some RAM". Dan hit the nail on the head for me with the Apple RAM upgrades.

[NuSkoolTone]

Reading this thread as a Kronos owner, I think the hardware we've been given is OUSTANDING. Sure, I could nitpick and have a wishlist (Especially as a computer guy!) but this is about as advanced as one can reasonably expect from the MI Market at this time. I think this year's Winter Namm will be VERY interesting!

That said, I WOULD like to see more CONTENT. EXis, Sound Libraries that address the Kronos's weakspots, and of course OS updates that address many features/fixes mentioned in the "wishlist". Though still a great board, many of us feel the possibilities are still untapped and could be even more cohesive as a performance instrument. It is our hope that the Kronos is still being developed for in a Kurzweil K2000 series type mindset.

[jeremykeys]

I figure that I'm going to be using my basically un-upgraded Kronos for a long long time. I am planning on having the ram increased and a second SSD installed but not for a while. For me it's a far higher priority to learn how to really use Mod-7 and AL-1. I really want to get a handle on these engines as I think they have a ton of untapped potential and power.

[Dniss]

I figure that I'm going to be using my basically un-upgraded Kronos for a long long time. I am planning on having the ram increased and a second SSD installed but not for a while. For me it's a far higher priority to learn how to really use Mod-7 and AL-1. I really want to get a handle on these engines as I think they have a ton of untapped potential and power.

Same here! I just started scratching the surface of the K and as of now, there has been no situation yet where I need more space or more ram.

[Francois]

If you're not using sample banks, then v1 of the Kronos with its 30Gb drive and 1Gb RAM is perfectly acceptable to use as is. Fan and keyboard questions aside that is.

However, when you start using the sample libraries that exist for the Kronos, be it Korg, KARO, Irish Acts, Kid Nepro... then suddenly you feel the restrictions of Kronos v1.

This is what I found frustrating, giving users access to a great technology, but impeding its use for lack of adequate equipment. Hence the reason I think that the Kronos X is what the Kronos should have been at the outset.

The fact that v1 of the Kronos sold in large quantities does not mean buyers didn't recognise the limitations, specially if they were able to remedy them. Still, I'm happy Korg "saw the light" and offered as standard a version that has sufficient RAM and drive space.

However, for the next top of the range workstation, it would be nice for early adopters to not have to add anything.

[danatkorg]

Please see my detailed responses above.