Workstation vs VST if money no object

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:34 pm

Maschine is limited in some ways, but as a drum vst for hiphop and electronically based music I don't know of a "better" one. It's a hardware/software combi but that's the power of it. Alternatives are MPC Renaissance, or in some ways Reason. For super realistic acoustic drums it's not the class leader, but I don't think that's what you're looking for per se.

Logic and the Kronos should be able to keep you busy for a while though, since you already settled on those.

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:57 pm

I used to do a lot on the computer but steadily cut back until I was just using B4 and FM7 with a midi keyboard. Then came the Kronos. If only it had a piano roll in the sequencer I could ditch the computer completely as the Kronos does pretty well everything you would want.

Bryan

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:51 pm

I love Kronos and I love Maschine, I wonder though how much easier would manipulating the Kronos drums and such be with a dedicated set of pads. I don't mean built in but using maschine or PUSH or nano pads pad kontrol etc. I have not tired this. I find it currently to me much easier for me to just use maschine for drums and such, especially while trying to learn Kronos. But those of you with these devices and who have played with both can you accomplish a similar work flow with the Kronos or using Kronos and a DAW and a set of pads?

I find the Jeremy Ellis clip at NI to be a very good example of how immediate the creation process can be with this type of device. Kronos would be, the be all end all, for me if I could learn it well enough to have such immediacy. I think though that perhaps, that's just me.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:30 am

I also don't know the first thing about hip-hop but I do know that one of Drake's guys uses Frootyloops. I read this in Keyboardmag. He says that even though it's old, it does exactly what he wants.

As far as beats ( and I think that might mean drums) goes, I just try different ones until I find what I want. I haven't downloaded any drum tracks but there are tons of them and from what I understand, they seem to go into the kronos pretty easily.

Vlad_77 · Post by **Vlad_77** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:31 am

Sorry to drag this out, but I was watching some YouTube videos of guys doing beats on the Fantom X just to get a sense of what I am missing and because Fantoms were mentioned in this thread. Still a great workstation IMHO and these guys were doing some really interesting things. So it seems that for hip-hop, a Fantom X - and I would presume a Fantom G has a better workflow for the genre?

One guy did some very cool tricks with chopping samples and created some insane beats, etc., using key assign and pad assign on the X and it really sounded great.

Seems bizarre given the huge popularity of hip-hop that Korg wouldn't have taken into consideration this genre's seemingly unique needs. I still can't help but think there IS a way to do hip-hop on a Kronos.

I bought my Fantom X just before the Fantom G was released - and I don't regret it as I think the X is still better in some ways. Here I am a rocker and ambient and Celtic style artist and all along it seems I have a great keyboard for a genre I don't play! Maybe I'll view those videos again and adapt what I saw to the genres I perform.

Here's a video just showcasing some beats on an X6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up6VA4D6csE Is this what you guys mean?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:44 am

The Kronos isn't preventing you from making hiphop on it. It's just easier/more inspiring with a different workflow.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:06 pm

Vlad_77 wrote:
Here's a video just showcasing some beats on an X6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up6VA4D6csE Is this what you guys mean?

These video shows the non-stop workflow of Fantom Sequencer... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCBuRGKCbo8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE3T1TTOw7Y

He doesn't show in this video, but during the seuquencer session, you can jump into detailed patch editing, to customize the sounds and drums for the song.

This is not possible on KRONOS.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:20 pm

Does the new Logic Pro X or any DAW allow his how of work flow, similar to the pad systems?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:53 pm

Ableton, Reason and Maschine come a lot closer. FruityLoops too maybe but I don't know it that well. Logic, Cubase, Sonar and the like are more linear. To be honest I would usually still work linearly eventually, but the loop based stuff is great for beat building.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm

i would go computer software world (Apple Mac) because i think modern software is ALOT MORE advenced then what u can get from Modern ardware keyboards in awry possible way. From the sound quality to the huge possibilities and tweaks.

p.s. yes, hardware keyboards are more esy to use and need less learning requairment but that's it.

But music not about how esy to use, or the weith of ur music equipment or how quickly ur keyboard turns on and other crupp, music is about sound and i think modern music software is not just better but it is just on another legue and much more advenced then what moern hardware keyabords can give to u.

Most modern digital keybords if not all of them use 10 years old or even more older technologies from the past with some minor tweaks....

Ofcause high end analog keybords are another topic and does not folow the same analogy, and may compite with modern high end digital software emulations and some time even win over them, but i think it is just question of time when digital emulation will be on pair or even better then high end analog.

p.s.
ofcause the first thing is needed is a talent and with out it no metter how good music equipent u have, u can not make good music,period!

Vlad_77 · Post by **Vlad_77** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:57 am

SanderXpander wrote:The Kronos isn't preventing you from making hiphop on it. It's just easier/more inspiring with a different workflow.

Hi SanderXpander,

I'm not planning to create hip-hop, just trying to understand a bit more.

I'm mainly a rocker who likes to explore the trails that the great bands have blazed. Musically though, it's good have a deeper understanding of other popular genres.

Best,
Vlad

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:25 am

Lol Vlad I can't speak for SanderXpander but I kind of tool that reply as rhetorical. I'm sure we can get the sounds from it but it doesn't allow the same kind of real time work flow and control, or at least I havent figured it out yet but then again there is a lot I haven't figured out yet! Which is why I have the other device. I won't name it again for fear of sounding like a commercial!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:31 am

Vlad, I just meant to say of course you can produce hiphop on a Kronos. It'd just not be as comfortable as on some other gear. Since creating music follows from inspiration, it's kinda hard to keep that going if you need to do fifteen extra steps to switch a bassdrum, or stop the groove just to switch tracks. It's not such a big issue for linear song writing where you can play the whole chord progression in one go and then do the next.

richford · Post by **richford** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:36 am

It's a topic that's been much on my mind for some time.

I originally bought a Kronos for gigging - but it seemed a waste not to use it in the studio as well. As you will see elsewhere on the forums I'm still ironing out issues implementing that, but getting there now.

I also have an Access Virus TI which with the AU GUI is actually really good - but bringing the audio in via USB was always a serious pain - latency problems and audio glitches and port dropping - no problems (touch wood) if audio is kept away from the USB bus though.

Fairly recently I went down the firewire mixer route (A&H zed R16) and my studio is much less in the box now than it was.

Having said all that plugins like Alchemy and Predator are fantastic - Alchemy in particular is a favourite of mine - I'm not a fan of Omnisphere though.

For me it's not necessarily a question of the hardware necessarily "sounding" better - I'm reasonably convinced these days stunning results can come from within the box only - but having the hardware around and some real proper faders and all that really helps me personally. And I can whack in a quick mic recording or guitar part or whatever without the same overpatching that used to be required with less flexible audio I/O.

Also I find that it forces me to print my audio tracks to the DAW at an earlier stage. I don't have to, but feel that I ought to in case I can't pull up the project settings properly next time - and I'm terrible for having too many choices to make towards the mixing stage - having printed audio tracks makes mixing easier and the software (cos I'm using less of it) consequently has less of a tendency to crash.

Stipes Vigilo · Post by **Stipes Vigilo** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:45 am

Kronos has more to do with how it plays as well as the sound it delivers. It feels more like a real instrument to me than other boards. Likewise, I keep my Roland VsynthGT for the AP synthesis modeling more than just the basic synth sounds. I have a couple of Yam. motif racks for the guitars I like but would honestly like to turn the older one to the keyboard XF. I look at everyone of them as being a computer second, but as an instrument first. But I do like simple too. And the computer has to fill a void in sound more than replace or back up what the hardware does. The short list for the computer would be Omnisphere and Alchemy for the software synths and probably Vienna for sampled orchestras. And the keyboards Kronos - Motif XF - Roland, (and most likely an Akai MPK88 to play the computer.