Clavia / NORD - taking over the (stage) world !! ??

AnthonyB · Post by **AnthonyB** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:57 pm

It true though ' Nord Seem to be EVERWHERE ' on BBC night Shows ' Jules Holland Live Shows etc. reminds me When the korgMI was On Every tv Show. I think the comments here are interesting Especially the" complicated" (?)kronos With all its bells and Whistles etc, When most Gigging keyboard Players need piano/ EP/ organ and not much else it seems?

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:59 pm

i believe that live gigger prefer a streamlined interface with eveything at hand for live tweaking, from lfo, to cutoff, to vibrato etc etc
i know kronos may have the same with sliders, but i suspect it's not the same experience.
at least, i have m3 and other more perfomance oriented synth like v-synth, and have to say that m3 is not so comfortable live while is great in my little home studio

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:00 pm

AnthonyB wrote:It true though ' Nord Seem to be EVERWHERE ' on BBC night Shows ' Jules Holland Live Shows etc. reminds me When the korgMI was On Every tv Show. I think the comments here are interesting Especially the" complicated" (?)kronos With all its bells and Whistles etc, When most Gigging keyboard Players need piano/ EP/ organ and not much else it seems?

If you're suggesting that offering incredibly sophisticated synth engines is some sort of deterrent (not sure I agree but I see where you're coming from) - then to me the issue is surely one of lack of commercially available, useful libraries for those engines, and not the existence of the synth engines on board per say.

What I mean is, on Kronos the STR-1, MOD-7 and even MS20EX remain incredibly under programmed by the community. If there existed superlative libraries for these synth engines then they might be more desirable, and seen as more valuable even to standard gigging keyboardists.

In my view it is the right strategy, or at least a hugely laudable approach (by Korg and others) to offer such a forthright and capable players' instrument as the Kronos is, but also to provide such deep synthesis. Even if you don't program yourself, at least the engines are there to be programmed by those with that desire (in theory). It's only a pity that more commercially available libraries don't exist - to the level where even non programming keyboard players would desire them.

A few years ago I saw Herbie Hancock live in Dublin playing the OASYS, and it was fantastic to see him fully exploit the instrument - for HD-1 based standard electric pianos, Clavs from STR-1, awesome CX-3 Organs and glistening AL-1 leads. A wonderful example of someone using all the 'synth engine' depth and versatility that the OASYS / Kronos offers, but played live as the real-deal, highest echelon live player he is.

Personally I don't think having deep synth engines is an issue or a deterrent for many - and again - if Clavia rule the waves (excuse the pun) - it must be the red colour and styling!!

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:03 pm

or because they gave waves libraries for free with a really good editor too

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:40 pm

I really think it's a fundamental difference in attitude towards keyboard instruments and I doubt that a good library of synth presets is what's keeping Nord players away from the Kronos. I love my Kronos and switched away from a Nord Stage/TEX combo for it. I can program it to do nearly anything I need (certainly more than with the Nord), but I STILL sometimes miss the interface and immediacy of the Nord. It's the iPad versus a loaded workstation with Cubase/Logic, in a sense.
Though I'm sure people will poke holes in that comparison soon enough.

kanout · Post by **kanout** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:09 pm

If you're suggesting that offering incredibly sophisticated synth engines is some sort of deterrent (not sure I agree but I see where you're coming from) - then to me the issue is surely one of lack of commercially available, useful libraries for those engines, and not the existence of the synth engines on board per say.

If you want to understand why some keyboard player love NORD,the first thing is to forget the well known tec specs debate.
The acoustic piano has one sound and no modulation,but there are a lot of musician who absolutly don't care about synth and prefer playing only a good piano..
Just an exemple.

What I mean is, on Kronos the STR-1, MOD-7 and even MS20EX remain incredibly under programmed by the community. If there existed superlative libraries for these synth engines then they might be more desirable, and seen as more valuable even to standard gigging keyboardists.

That's a good point.
This thing is exactly what i mean:
Every people can afford a kronos,but not so much can master all the power aspect in it..
When you buy a NORD you can easily master all the essential aspect of the keyboard,and keep time to play music.

A few years ago I saw Herbie Hancock live in Dublin playing the OASYS, and it was fantastic to see him fully exploit the instrument - for HD-1 based standard electric pianos, Clavs from STR-1, awesome CX-3 Organs and glistening AL-1 leads. A wonderful example of someone using all the 'synth engine' depth and versatility that the OASYS / Kronos offers, but played live as the real-deal, highest echelon live player he is.

Seriously,sorry to say that but do you think you need only a kronos or oasys to do that?
Do you think this justify a kronos?
Think for exemple about chick correa and his motif xf8...or other exemple.

I'm often playing live with a kurzweil PC3k8 live for all the pianos eps and synths sounds(the public absolutly doesn't care if the lead synth are from kurzweil or korg..they can perfectly do the job each other.)

I have on upper the nord electro 4 with a waterfall keyboard for organ sounds(who are i think more versatile than the CX3 even if they are good too)
The advantage is a real waterfall and a real heavyweight keyboard..and 2 colors..
On stage i don't think a kronos would be better than this solution..

But it's just an exemple,some guys have for exemple a yamaha cp5 and a hammond...etc etc.
When you play at a certain level you can find some diverse solutions having 2 or 3 keyboards..

We're talking about live music,not studio.
And again think about this:
We all know the kronos advantage for sound design..but:
Can you tell me the advantage of the kronos power between a NORD STAGE in a blues band?

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:56 pm

Look at this forum member's post history, and draw your own conclusions about his intent:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hor=kanout

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:00 pm

danatkorg wrote:Look at this forum member's post history, and draw your own conclusions about his intent:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hor=kanout

He does seem a bit negative towards the Kronos!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:02 pm

I'm not and I can still see the merits of the Nord. I don't think Kanout has been particularly unfair in this thread. If anything we needed someone to balance out Kevin Nolan

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:03 pm

Whatever his intent may be, what he wrote is true. I see Nord on pro stages all the time, followed by Motifs. I rarely ever see the Kronos.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:31 pm

Apologies to all if I've caused a bit of a storm - I was genuinely shocked to see so many Nords in one night, and hence my question.

Actually - I must have had my head stuck in the sand on this because quite a lot of the posts here really surprise me - I hadn't realised that the Nord Elecro goes back to 2001 - my argument of poor sound might actually be because the version I played in my local shop was perhaps from 2001!

If you'd asked me how long they were out I would have said 3 or 4 years !! I'm clearly getting old!! And clearly do not get to enough gigs.

As an aside, I have a Nord Lead 2. I'm not exactly in love with it, but as a raw, no nonsence synth, it does what it says on the tin.

I have faith in Dan's sense of the numbers of various keyboard selling and am glad if, Dan, you're not in panic mode (meaning Kronos and it's off-spring are hopefully doing quite well).

Recommend we all chill (me included) on comparing the merits of one over the other or Sharp will end up locking the thread ( I have a little bit of a habit of initiating such threads !!

).

Thanks for the genuinely interesting discussion.

Cheers,
Kevin.

kanout · Post by **kanout** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:54 pm

danatkorg wrotes:

Look at this forum member's post history, and draw your own conclusions about his intent

Hey mr danatkorg,do you think it's a first class way to write an answer?
Maybe because you don't have some good argument?

It's not really fair to put your finger on me like this,and honestly everybody can read all my messages and understand the way i think,no souci.

Maybe your dream is a korg forum only with fanboys?
So many people needs real debates...even if this disturbing you.

I wrote so many post here to defend the jupiter 80 against some kronos fanboy,where is the problem for you?

In this thread,i didn't said bad things about the kronos exept some words for reliability and construction.
I never wrote some bad things in the multiples thread about al the kronos problems(korg forums doesn't need me for that)...and you know how many people were delused by this fact.

I fact,i honestly consider the kronos as a bad synth for that(i bought one who makes me mad during 2 weeks before bring it back so i personaly know what is a bad kronos....but it's korg enginner's fault,not mine sorry mr danatkorg)

But i honestly consider the kronos as the best bang for the buck in tec specs,a high level sounding synth and a sound design beast..so far from a troll way to do.

We are in a NORD thread,so what's your problem mr?
Do you want user debate or not?

Another thing:
Korg was my first synth:(01wpro)and i had several korg synths in my life and i was a ardent defensor in french forums of the radias,the M3..etc
(i had a M3 73 full option with the KKS option and the radias rack inside),qnd i bought 3 korg SV1 man(yes 3)so if think need more respect from korg because of the money i spent in your products.

But last thing:
I can't say more(i'm a simple user here)but in my family we have a big shop in a part of the world(not in france)and we are selling very well and so much products.
Your company needs some shop like that....because you are producing hardware because shops like us are selling our products.

So it's not very fairplay to do like that,and this means nothing(everybody can read my messages)than making your action ridiculous.

To conclude(man to man)
As a korg enginneer,you know very well, what i mean about construction and reliability(i can speak here about the SV1 keybed problems i had if you want:-)...)
It'n not your fault,but just strategic choices:
If korg strategy was to make the most reliable synth in the market(like NORD strategy for exemple),korg enginneers would have make it for sure because they can do it if korg decide.
It is not the case actually,and this stupid demonstration putting your finger on me is just a way to show i'm in the truth.
Thanks for that!

Diego5150 · Post by **Diego5150** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:04 pm

Kevin it looks as if you struck a nerve. I myself see Nords a lot myself and although I have never tried one out seeing them everywhere tempts me to check one out to see what I am missing.
From what I have heard the piano sounds for the stage 2 sound decent.
I will still love my Kronos.................................

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:13 pm

Thanks for clarifying your character and intent, kanout. You've done so much more definitively than anyone else ever could.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:24 pm

Recently I nearly got rid of my 88 to get a Stage, I know in many ways the stage is far more limited than the Kronos but I have a bit of a hate/love thing with the Kronos.

I love the two Nords I have (G1 and G2) so I can understand why you see so many around, maybe people just love them even though they are limited and expensive.