Kronos Problems - should I bother?

[GregC]

Yep, it's the customers fault

People can read and do a little research. With that knowledge they can test the common faults before taking it home.

Sure beats wasting time and money on gas.

[JonSolo]

It feels like in each case you are getting second hand or refurb units. Nothing wrong with that but you have to check them out.

I do not know of any stores around here that are selling the original models that are not refurbs. They only carry the X now.

So while it is NOT the customers fault, I would check out any previously owned units before driving home for sure.

[cello]

Yep, it's the customers fault

... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...

Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?

[GregC]

Yep, it's the customers fault

... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...

/

[GregC]

... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...

Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?

we have talked thoroughly on this on another thread.

Horse has bolted the barn long ago. Corporations, esp Manufacturers have been outsourcing to Asia, using low cost parts and cheap processes. This has been epidemic for 20 years. Consumers, esp US consumers benefit and enjoy low prices/more bang for the buck deals. As we know, Euro consumers still pay high prices with dubious quality. Sort of a lose/lose.

So quality is pretty much a dubious commodity. Manufacturer orders 10,000 parts from low cost Asia co. Everything seems groovy to Korg, yet in reality 500 parts out of 10,000 are carp. In the rush to produce a product and get the jump in the marketplace, the carpy parts are buried into the production process. Korg falls into the same bucket of other electronics co's of inconsistent quality standards.

US consumers mostly seem to get this. Am I really getting a good deal ? Is there a tradeoff/short cut in other areas where I pay a price later ? Lots of available independent research, publicity, quality data on cars, electronics, appliances.

[jeebustrain]

Yep, it's the customers fault

... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...

Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?

If that were the case for all products, there would be no need for publications like Consumer Reports, which test and review many products (cars, washing machines, TVs, etc...) to find those "common faults." Ever look at the the reliability marks on high end cars (Mercedes, Jaguar, etc...)? It's terrible.

[Ojustaboo]

Yep, it's the customers fault

People can read and do a little research. With that knowledge they can test the common faults before taking it home.

Sure beats wasting time and money on gas.

First thing I did when I got my first Kronos home was test for the keybed problem, It seemed perfect, It was only when doing a piano lesson doing a particular arpeggio exercise that the note cutoff came to light.

Once I knew how to produce it I could do it every time.

My second Kronos velocity problem only came to light after a few days, again doing another piano lesson where at first I thought it was me playing the piece wrong.

My KronosX, they offered to let me test it in the shop, I declined saying I'd soon bring it back if it was faulty. The shops only a 30 min drive away and rather than test in store with people roaming around the place, then having to pack it securely, I'd rather it at my house unpacked once, placed on the stand and away I go.

If I had tested it on store, they were going to offer me headphones to play it through.

The X has a few rattly keys and one that makes a boinging noise, they all play fine, its mechanical noises, I would not have noticed these in store with headphones on.

So for me, in all three examples, if I had got the board out in store and tested it, none of the problems would have shown up.

The Op bought a 61, it had something loose inside, he took it back, decided to change to the 73. It's two years since release, why should he suppose he was still at risk from this fault? Would he have noticed it if he had tried it on the store or would he have done like I did when I first got mine home, try every note thoroughly and think it's OK, only discovering the fault a few days later?

More to the point, its one thing consumer reports mentioning major problems developing in cars, electronics or whatever, its another them being present at time of purchase and the company and retail stores appearing not to care.

Every original board under the top secret serial number where the problem was eradicated at point of manufacture, sent out from Korg, should be tested for the note cutoff problem by someone that knows how to produce it.

Korg should have contacted all their resellers to explain the problem some people have had and tell them that if a customer returns the board with that problem, they are to return them to Korg and not resell them..

Any authorised reseller shop selling new equipment, unless they have a year old inventory (in which case I think Korg should ask for them back to test), should not now be selling new Kronoses with this problem.

And anyone selling B stock should clearly have this labelled. I know Korg UK refurbished a load that were sold as B stock by music retailers and again in those cases, the problem should have been checked for.

There really is NO excuse for people to still be going through this.

In the UK (and I suspect the EU) a company isn't allowed to sell a returned product as new, even if its bought back the following day unopened. A major UK electronics retailer was prosecuted for this a few years ago.

The Trades Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act both say that goods have to be as described. Therefore for a product to be called "new" there should have been no transfer to anyone else between the shop and the purchaser. "Even if something is bought and then brought back the next day it is still second-hand," said a spokeswoman for the Department of Trade and Industry.

[GregC]

Yep, it's the customers fault

People can read and do a little research. With that knowledge they can test the common faults before taking it home.

Sure beats wasting time and money on gas.

First thing I did when I got my first Kronos home was test for the keybed problem, It seemed perfect, It was only when doing a piano lesson doing a particular arpeggio exercise that the note cutoff came to light.

Once I knew how to produce it I could do it every time.

My second Kronos velocity problem only came to light after a few days, again doing another piano lesson where at first I thought it was me playing the piece wrong.

My KronosX, they offered to let me test it in the shop, I declined saying I'd soon bring it back if it was faulty. The shops only a 30 min drive away and rather than test in store with people roaming around the place, then having to pack it securely, I'd rather it at my house unpacked once, placed on the stand and away I go.

If I had tested it on store, they were going to offer me headphones to play it through.

The X has a few rattly keys and one that makes a boinging noise, they all play fine, its mechanical noises, I would not have noticed these in store with headphones on.

So for me, in all three examples, if I had got the board out in store and tested it, none of the problems would have shown up.

The Op bought a 61, it had something loose inside, he took it back, decided to change to the 73. It's two years since release, why should he suppose he was still at risk from this fault? Would he have noticed it if he had tried it on the store or would he have done like I did when I first got mine home, try every note thoroughly and think it's OK, only discovering the fault a few days later?

More to the point, its one thing consumer reports mentioning major problems developing in cars, electronics or whatever, its another them being present at time of purchase and the company and retail stores appearing not to care.

Every original board under the top secret serial number where the problem was eradicated at point of manufacture, sent out from Korg, should be tested for the note cutoff problem by someone that knows how to produce it.

Korg should have contacted all their resellers to explain the problem some people have had and tell them that if a customer returns the board with that problem, they are to return them to Korg and not resell them..

Any authorised reseller shop selling new equipment, unless they have a year old inventory (in which case I think Korg should ask for them back to test), should not now be selling new Kronoses with this problem.

And anyone selling B stock should clearly have this labelled. I know Korg UK refurbished a load that were sold as B stock by music retailers and again in those cases, the problem should have been checked for.

There really is NO excuse for people to still be going through this.

In the UK (and I suspect the EU) a company isn't allowed to sell a returned product as new, even if its bought back the following day unopened. A major UK electronics retailer was prosecuted for this a few years ago.

The Trades Descriptions Act and the Sale of Goods Act both say that goods have to be as described. Therefore for a product to be called "new" there should have been no transfer to anyone else between the shop and the purchaser. "Even if something is bought and then brought back the next day it is still second-hand," said a spokeswoman for the Department of Trade and Industry.

once again, we are discussing the posters o/p and his Kronos circumstances. Testing at the store would have given him the immediate knowledge to not take that particular unit. As we know, there is abundant info available about defects, small and major.

And stating what " Korg should do " must be getting tiresome. If they agreed with you, they would have done so.

[Ojustaboo]

... they can test the common faults before taking it home ...

Or how about the preposterous and nonsensical notion that there shouldn't be any 'common faults' to have to research in a flagship keyboard?

If that were the case for all products, there would be no need for publications like Consumer Reports, which test and review many products (cars, washing machines, TVs, etc...) to find those "common faults." Ever look at the the reliability marks on high end cars (Mercedes, Jaguar, etc...)? It's terrible.

An engineer came to my house to replace a part in my £400 washing machine as it was a known fault discovered after manufacturing. I guarantee (the way it was sold in all UK white goods outlets etc) many more of those washing machines were sold than Kronoses have been.

Most common actual faults aren't there at time of purchase, they are faults that develop over time.

Often the so called faults in consumer magazines are faults in the design or user friendliness of a product (say a monitors response time is flagged as not being good for gaming etc).

Not faults that say mean a TV wont let you watch the TV or a piano wont let you play the notes properly.

As for reliability, the very nature of a car being a car means there's always a chance of it breaking down, whether it's a hose bursting, a belt snapping or whatever.

Washing machines are similar, if you pay enough you can get very very reliable ones (even these break down sometimes), but the cheaper end of the market, most people I know have had one break down on them for one reason or another (pump being blocked is a usual one)

Those are what the reliability tests are usually about.

Most electronic devices will either be dead on arrival or the first few days of use, or will hopefully go on for years.

Personally I don't think this is the same thing at all as buying a 3K Synth/workstation and expecting to have notes that play properly. I waited a year, thinking I'd be free of it by now, turns out that waiting two years still isn't enough.

[Ojustaboo]

And stating what " Korg should do " must be getting tiresome. If they agreed with you, they would have done so.

Not just me, still its their choice, in a few years when they're either bankrupt or out of the workstation market altogether due to their loss of reputation, it will be their own fault.

It gets just as tiring seeing you stick up for them at every possible opportunity, something I noticed when the keybed problem first came to light 2 years ago.

As soon as someone posts they are having a problem with their new Kronos, just as you know I'm going to say yet again words along the lines of

"still Korg, after all this time, still, are you trying to ruin your company" etc

I and others also know you and a couple of others are going to wade in in defence of what I think is indefensible and stick up for them blaming the dealers, blaming the customer for not researching or opening in store, etc, basically blaming everyone but Korg.

[Ojustaboo]

I bought one in December and there is something metal rattling around in it as well. I haven't opened it, but I'm sure it's a screw. Even though I'm very happy with the keyboard overall, this is probably Korg's worst moment. In 30 years of owning keyboards, this is by far the worst engineering job I've ever seen.

I hope you don't move your board around, a loose screw could fry your motherboard etc

[RecreationalPlayer]

I would also check it at the store itself if you had to drive that far.

Also, a bit strange you bought a 61 and within a day you decided to buy a 73. Isn't that part of the 'research'?

Hope you will be happy with a good one. Most are as can be read in the topics.

So yes I've been "researching". Last week I was down in NYC, stopped in Guitar Center and played the 61 for the first time and liked it. I've played the 88 up in the Albany Guitar Center. I've been going back and forth on the 61 vs. 73/88 . I just put doors on our dining room which will become a new music room / den, but sizewise having two boards there would be a squeeze. I could do 61 over my 88, but then there would be no place to put sheet music. Prices online I've seen have been $3300(73) vs $2800(61) for the original Kronos. I have seen the 61 for less in a Sam Ash and Guitar Center (Paramus NJ), but that was for the floor model with no original packaging.
I found Alto in Middletown online so I figured I'd continue my "research". I stopped in and they had a sale sign on a 61 for $2300. I asked if that was new in the box and it was! It hadn't occurred to me to ask if the 73 was also new and on sale because it wasn't on the sign and wasn't on display. I did ask when I returned the 61 and to my surprise they were offering the 73 for $2700 new in the box. I figured 73 is enough keys and weighted and I could then have a single board in my den vs. 2 with the 61. I can swing $2700 (with a little impulsiveness thrown in ). Yes - I should've demanded to take it out of the box, plug it in and try it there - but it was already late and I figured what are the odds of getting two bad boards in a row? I'm pretty sure they would've had no problem with me opening it there - so far no complaints at all with Alto. I am so happy I didn't get one off EBay or mail order!
I am concerned about the note cutoff issue because I tried a used 88 in Guitar Center in Paramus and was surprised when I noticed it right away (I must have the magic touch...). I also noticed it right away on this 73. If they offered me an 73X at the same price I'd grab it - but I don't expect to be that lucky. The logical part of me thinks I should just get a 61 and deal with running out of keys and with the space issue in the new den. My wife now thinks I'd be stupid to buy anything Korg and that I should just get something else or wait another year or two to see what else comes out.
Decisions... Decisions... I do appreciate all the thoughtful replies and extra information provided here.

[lonelagranger]

Roland and Yamaha must be looking down at Korg like a cat looks at a limping bird. Korg is doing this to themselves. I think they will regret it in the long run.

[BillW]

I bought one in December and there is something metal rattling around in it as well. I haven't opened it, but I'm sure it's a screw. Even though I'm very happy with the keyboard overall, this is probably Korg's worst moment. In 30 years of owning keyboards, this is by far the worst engineering job I've ever seen.

I hope you don't move your board around, a loose screw could fry your motherboard etc

Unfortunately, I have to on a regular basis. I usually shake it around a little so that the screw is in the bottom of the case. I will eventually get it fixed under warranty, but that can sometimes take 2-3 months in the shop.

[lonelagranger]

I would open it up and get that screw out of there. You are only asking for trouble with it rolling around inside. I think if you are careful taking out the screws, they would not be able to tell it was opened.

Besides with their quality control you would probably send it to them and they would send it back saying it is functioning perfectly. It passed all our diagnostics tests.