Unexpected behavior: selecting set list slots via midi

[Lennthorpe]

Hello everybody!

I recently integrated an ipad mini into my setup to simplify frequent reorder of songs in the set list of my band. My intention is to select the first set list slot for each song via bank&program change (Bank MSB, Bank LSB, Program-No.) with an ipad-app. I created one set list for each letter in the alphabet containing all the slots for the songs starting with that letter.

When sending the bank&program change, the Kronos screen redraws and shows the new set list and slot (combi/song) selected via midi as expected.
The smooth sound transition feature is also working as expected.

Combi-slots:
When selecting combi-slots via midi, the keys are playing the right (newly selected) sound, but the button controllers (on the left side of the screen) are not responding / frozen. Also, in the background the new combi is not selected inside combination mode, as it normally would when selecting a new slot on the touchscreen. So by hitting the combi button, Kronos does not show the combi selected via midi in set list mode, but a previously selected combi.

Song-slots:
When selecting song-slots via midi, the sequencer start/stop button does not play the selected song but a previously selected song. Consequently, the keys are not playing the right sounds. The sequencer is not updated in the background. Entering the sequencer mode does not show the latest selected song.

Program-slots:
Just to be complete: there are currently no program-slots in my set lists, so I have not tested how that works.

As far as I can tell, the problem seems to be related to the midi bank changes. It does not seem to occur when selecting slots via midi within the same set list.

By the way, I was also able to recreate the same issue with external instrument channel-strips in Mainstage2 sending the bank&program changes to Kronos’ standard midi-input port. Just to make sure it has nothing to do with the ipad, ipad-app or usb-midi.
Today I took the time to update to OS 2.0.6, but the problem still persists after the update.

As a workaround, I’m currently selecting an adjacent slot on the screen and then the previously selected slot again. That way everything gets updated as expected. But finding a real solution for this would be better…

I would appreciate if anybody could confirm this or tells me what I’m doing wrong. Any hints are welcome!

Thanks
Lennthorpe

[ronnfigg]

I believe that if you want to select a Set List Slot, you do not have to select the Combi using the Bank and PC data. I think what you are doing is selecting the Combi in the "background", while the screen is still displaying the Set List Slot. I believe if you are in Set List Mode, all you have to send is a PC, minus any Bank Select data. I am not 100% sure on this, but if there are Bank Select messages for Set List Slots, you may be sending the wrong one.

[Lennthorpe]

Thanks for your reply!

I believe that if you want to select a Set List Slot, you do not have to select the Combi using the Bank and PC data. I think what you are doing is selecting the Combi in the "background", while the screen is still displaying the Set List Slot.

What I was trying to explain is that Kronos is not behaving the same way when the selection is done via midi in comparison to touchscreen selection.

If you select a slot on the touchscreen, then Kronos will e.g. load the respective combi "in the background". So when you press the "combi" button, you will see the selected combi in the combi-mode.
This is not true when selecting a slot in a different set list via midi.

I believe if you are in Set List Mode, all you have to send is a PC, minus any Bank Select data. I am not 100% sure on this, but if there are Bank Select messages for Set List Slots, you may be sending the wrong one.

With a PC I can only select a different slot within a set list. What I want to do is also select a different set list, which is what the bank message is doing.
In the midi implementation I found:
mm,bb,pp = 00,00-7F,00-7F: 000-127 (Set List) 000-127 (Slot)

So my understanding is that Kronos is expecting 3 bytes of data:
1. 00 (hex) / Bank MSB
2. 00-7F (hex) Set List / Bank LSB
3. 00-7F (hex) Slot / PC

This is what I'm sending and corresponding to the redraw on the Kronos display the bank messages are working as expected.

[danatkorg]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I spent some time on this yesterday, and confirmed that something's not right there. It appears that SW1/2 continue to affect the sound as expected; the lights just don't update properly. I also reproduced the situation in which Songs don't respond to the play button. We'll look into this; I expect that there's a single root cause. In the meantime, your workarounds seem like a reasonable approach. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

[danatkorg]

It occurs to me that if you're not really using the Set List UI from the front panel, and just selecting sounds from your iPad, you could simply use the native modes (Program, Combi, Song) instead. The mode can be selected via SysEx.

[Lennthorpe]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I spent some time on this yesterday, and confirmed that something's not right there. It appears that SW1/2 continue to affect the sound as expected; the lights just don't update properly. I also reproduced the situation in which Songs don't respond to the play button. We'll look into this; I expect that there's a single root cause. In the meantime, your workarounds seem like a reasonable approach. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Dan, thank you very much for taking the time and further investigating this issue. I'm looking forward to seeing this fixed in a future update.

It occurs to me that if you're not really using the Set List UI from the front panel, and just selecting sounds from your iPad, you could simply use the native modes (Program, Combi, Song) instead. The mode can be selected via SysEx.

That may be a good approach in some situations, but actually I'm using the Set List mode quite extensively; using 150-200 slots for one show. Currently I'm utilizing the iPad to navigate to the first slot of a song (between performing two songs). Then during performance I use the foot switch to step through a variable amount of slots for each song. That way the number of "slots" in the iPad app is minimized to one for each song, which makes it easy to apply changes to the order of songs.
The reason why I'm doing this is because I did not find a convenient way to move a group of e.g. 10 or 12 slots used for one song.
It is my understanding that your suggestion would require to perform all the switching from the iPad and have all 150-200 program changes stored in the iPad app. But at the moment there is no function implemented to move a group of program changes in the iPad app as well. Hence the benefit I see in my approach would be gone.
Thanks for your suggestion anyway.