Kronos conversion utilities

[michelkeijzers]

If you have a Kronos and Triton then why don't you just copy the samples to HD-1? Use an init patch and sample all the Triton samples into Kronos. Of course the engine parameter conversion would be the most difficult but not unsolvable part. You are maybe not allowed to give those samples to us.
But Korg could make them PD if they are willing to do us mortals a favor.

Probably he does not want to sample it because besides it takes a lot of time, it also prevents all controllers behaving differently since those cannot be sampled easily (or only at one defined configuration).

[Saxifraga]

Probably he does not want to sample it because besides it takes a lot of time, it also prevents all controllers behaving differently since those cannot be sampled easily (or only at one defined configuration).

Do we speak about samples or patches? Rebuilding the patches is the complicated part, but using different unmodulated samples from the Kronos Library would make it even more difficult !?

[michelkeijzers]

Probably he does not want to sample it because besides it takes a lot of time, it also prevents all controllers behaving differently since those cannot be sampled easily (or only at one defined configuration).

Do we speak about samples or patches? Rebuilding the patches is the complicated part, but using different unmodulated samples from the Kronos Library would make it even more difficult !?

I was talking about patches, meaning to convert all parameters from a non Kronos program to a Kronos program (including used waveforms as far as possible). And yes ... this is really difficult (and sometimes impossible).

[cynkh]

I'm testing it right now as a completely off-line solution (working strictly with .PCG files on a computer rather than via MIDI or USB with the Kronos). I'm programming in Java to keep it platform independent but I plan to port it to Windows, Mac OS and even HTML5 for web or local use. I'll let the forum know when I've got a prototype ready to test and we'll start rounding up volunteers for alpha testing!

Thanks for the inquiry! Cheers!

Cynkh, how is your project going? Many of us are anxious to see what type of results you get.

Keep us posted, please!

[cynkh]

Also something I'd be very keen to check out. Once I've got a good test bed of hardware and software synths converting properly (and consistently ) I'll be able to dive into software-based samplers and VST's.

Cheers!

I'm very keen to see the utility just wonder if Gigastudio files could be turned into .PCG's

[cynkh]

I'm definitely working toward a more framework-oriented solution. Ideally, the conversion utility would take an input source (like SysEx, softsynth save file, sample file, etc.) and a generic description file to represent the source's architecture (like if it uses ADSR, ADSTR, AR, etc.) and then perform the conversion offline with these components. (By offline I mean strictly with a computer and without the Kronos necessarily hooked up).

This is proving to be the challenge as each new synth I research has some sort of feature just beyond the architectural scope of my previous efforts. Challenging, but fun nonetheless!

I will have a few tests ready to go shortly with a small subset of very specific hard- and softsynths and expand from there. So far I've heard a lot of interest in Korg's back catalog of gear (MS-2000, microKORG, Radias, R3, Triton, etc.) so this is where I'm focusing my energy. Any other requests?

Thanks and keep the suggestion coming! Cheers!

Probably he does not want to sample it because besides it takes a lot of time, it also prevents all controllers behaving differently since those cannot be sampled easily (or only at one defined configuration).

Do we speak about samples or patches? Rebuilding the patches is the complicated part, but using different unmodulated samples from the Kronos Library would make it even more difficult !?

I was talking about patches, meaning to convert all parameters from a non Kronos program to a Kronos program (including used waveforms as far as possible). And yes ... this is really difficult (and sometimes impossible).

[michelkeijzers]

I'm definitely working toward a more framework-oriented solution. Ideally, the conversion utility would take an input source (like SysEx, softsynth save file, sample file, etc.) and a generic description file to represent the source's architecture (like if it uses ADSR, ADSTR, AR, etc.) and then perform the conversion offline with these components. (By offline I mean strictly with a computer and without the Kronos necessarily hooked up).

This is proving to be the challenge as each new synth I research has some sort of feature just beyond the architectural scope of my previous efforts. Challenging, but fun nonetheless!

I will have a few tests ready to go shortly with a small subset of very specific hard- and softsynths and expand from there. So far I've heard a lot of interest in Korg's back catalog of gear (MS-2000, microKORG, Radias, R3, Triton, etc.) so this is where I'm focusing my energy. Any other requests?

Great to hear from you again.

I think you are doing the right way and exactly what I had in mind (but haven't even started on it and will not for quite some time: make a sort of generic patch that can be mapped from and to other synth (engines).

Sounds simple, but is far from it.

As far as I can remember it will not be easy to combine your and my application, but in any way I would like to link to yours so everybody can find it easily.

[cynkh]

I've been away for a bit, I know. Fortunately, though, much of my professional work has been overlapping with the conversion process and I'm able to have both areas feed off each other!

I'm working to keep the libraries abstracted the best way that I know how and am still finding other useful libraries to serve as models.

My latest idea is to wrap the Korg-provided developer data sheets (in text format) into XML and provide a separate XSD and/or DTD to keep it in the realm of standards. This way I can work on the conversion functions as native code but use the data from and to XML and PCG (as well as others like .fxp/.fxb for KLC and other VST files, .mid and .syx).

Cheers!

I'm definitely working toward a more framework-oriented solution. Ideally, the conversion utility would take an input source (like SysEx, softsynth save file, sample file, etc.) and a generic description file to represent the source's architecture (like if it uses ADSR, ADSTR, AR, etc.) and then perform the conversion offline with these components. (By offline I mean strictly with a computer and without the Kronos necessarily hooked up).

This is proving to be the challenge as each new synth I research has some sort of feature just beyond the architectural scope of my previous efforts. Challenging, but fun nonetheless!

I will have a few tests ready to go shortly with a small subset of very specific hard- and softsynths and expand from there. So far I've heard a lot of interest in Korg's back catalog of gear (MS-2000, microKORG, Radias, R3, Triton, etc.) so this is where I'm focusing my energy. Any other requests?

Great to hear from you again.

I think you are doing the right way and exactly what I had in mind (but haven't even started on it and will not for quite some time: make a sort of generic patch that can be mapped from and to other synth (engines).

Sounds simple, but is far from it.

As far as I can remember it will not be easy to combine your and my application, but in any way I would like to link to yours so everybody can find it easily.

[michelkeijzers]

I've been away for a bit, I know. Fortunately, though, much of my professional work has been overlapping with the conversion process and I'm able to have both areas feed off each other!

I'm working to keep the libraries abstracted the best way that I know how and am still finding other useful libraries to serve as models.

My latest idea is to wrap the Korg-provided developer data sheets (in text format) into XML and provide a separate XSD and/or DTD to keep it in the realm of standards. This way I can work on the conversion functions as native code but use the data from and to XML and PCG (as well as others like .fxp/.fxb for KLC and other VST files, .mid and .syx).

Cheers!

Sound good that you can combine both your work and hobby project together.

I also would be very interested in those XML files ... Recently I gathered all MIDI exclusive documents from korg.com, korg.jp and other resources. I could not find the Trinity (including all programs and combi parameters). If you have those, I would be really interested in receiving them.

If you need my other documents I possibly can help (except for Oasys).

[cynkh]

I've made a bit more headway with reading from KLC Polysix preset (.fxp) files and am testing copying/pasting the patch data directly into Kronos PCG files. Once I've successfully tested I'll be putting the project into alpha-test mode and contacting all the individuals who expressed interest in the project.

Thanks again to all who contributed suggestions and ideas!

Cheers!

[pianogrl697]

I'm "new" to the synth world and struggling to understand how to use my Korg M3 - when I have the time! But all this talk about the Kronos makes me feel like selling my Korg M3 and upgrading to the Kronos, lol.

I cannot wait to see what you develop, nonetheless. There aren't many good sound libraries out there for the M3. I had a Yamaha Motif but switched to the Korg, just liked the Korg better for some reason. I found some great banks for the Motif - just wish they would work in the M3 too!

I hope you'll work on something for us M3 users like perhaps banks from older Korg models to be used in the M3 - love a lot of the classic Wavestation sounds!

[michelkeijzers]

I'm "new" to the synth world and struggling to understand how to use my Korg M3 - when I have the time! But all this talk about the Kronos makes me feel like selling my Korg M3 and upgrading to the Kronos, lol.

I cannot wait to see what you develop, nonetheless. There aren't many good sound libraries out there for the M3. I had a Yamaha Motif but switched to the Korg, just liked the Korg better for some reason. I found some great banks for the Motif - just wish they would work in the M3 too!

I hope you'll work on something for us M3 users like perhaps banks from older Korg models to be used in the M3 - love a lot of the classic Wavestation sounds!

It's not as easy as you think: different engine, parameters, wave forms.

[cynkh]

The Kronos has a lot going on and a lot going for it. I would definitely say it's worth the upgrade; but, I wouldn't tell you to expect an apples-to-apples comparison. While I do believe the Kronos can do what the M3 can and more, it certainly does it in its own unique way.

In any case, you really can't go wrong with Korg for workstation synthesizers- there is always so much to explore and the vast majority of it is instantly usable and quite inspiring.

Whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck!

Cheers!

I'm "new" to the synth world and struggling to understand how to use my Korg M3 - when I have the time! But all this talk about the Kronos makes me feel like selling my Korg M3 and upgrading to the Kronos, lol.

I cannot wait to see what you develop, nonetheless. There aren't many good sound libraries out there for the M3. I had a Yamaha Motif but switched to the Korg, just liked the Korg better for some reason. I found some great banks for the Motif - just wish they would work in the M3 too!

I hope you'll work on something for us M3 users like perhaps banks from older Korg models to be used in the M3 - love a lot of the classic Wavestation sounds!

It's not as easy as you think: different engine, parameters, wave forms.

[cynkh]

The conversion utility is almost complete for KLC/EXi Polysix programs. This will be phase I for the program since it lays the groundwork for future program conversion.

Right now the program is able to read KLC Polysix .fxp and .fxb programs and also read PolysixEX programs from Kronos PCG files. The parameter writing code is in the process of being tested right now and as soon as the bugs are worked out in development I'll be asking for volunteers to help test the Polysix conversion and further develop KLC/EXi MS-20 conversion.

Thank you again to everyone who has helped out so far and to everyone who has offered suggestions and expressed interest. I will be contacting people privately for the next "alpha" phase of testing.

In the meantime, you can feel free to PM me with suggestions or volunteer requests. The program is only available in Java for the time-being but will be expanded based on interest level.

Cheers!

[michelkeijzers]

The conversion utility is almost complete for KLC/EXi Polysix programs. Cheers!

Congratulations!