Still problems with Combi mode and external MIDI.

[Saxifraga]

Hi! Has anyone experienced similar problems then me?

I have connected different devices (Moog Little Phatty, iPad synths, Yamaha QY-100, Macbook Pro) and all have problems with hanging notes on different MIDI channels.
I use a Combi with multiple split zones. Every zone has it´s own MIDI channel. The external devices are connected via standard 5-pin MIDI cable. (Only Kronos OUT to external device IN.)

I always(!) get hanging notes on my external devices via MIDI OUT. Only connections over USB work properly.

If I mute all timbres in my Combi I still get sporadic note off events!
The keyboard always sends on the global channel.

The consequence is:
I cannot use my Ipad because of
A) hanging notes over MIDI or
B) audio clipping over USB with most synth APPs. (On iPad 1. Maybe no problems with iPad>1?)

I cannot use my Little Phatty with my Kronos because of
A) hanging Notes over MIDI or
B) USB not possible because of wrong port. (Kronos and Phatty want to be slave to a Computer but not each other)

It´s a bloody mess.

Does no other use external equipment via old MIDI cables?
What do you experience with USB and MIDI connections?

[AdDeRoo]

Hi Saxifraga

I use the Kronos frequently in combination with an arranger over Midi Out, and experiencely no problems at all. I only use 1 Midi channel at a time however, and with a short 1.5 m conventional Midi cable.

Have you tried to reduce your setup to 1 Midi channel at a time only and then see if the problem is still there?

[alanjpearson]

Hi! Has anyone experienced similar problems then me?

I have connected different devices (Moog Little Phatty, iPad synths, Yamaha QY-100, Macbook Pro) and all have problems with hanging notes on different MIDI channels.
I use a Combi with multiple split zones. Every zone has it´s own MIDI channel. The external devices are connected via standard 5-pin MIDI cable. (Only Kronos OUT to external device IN.)

I always(!) get hanging notes on my external devices via MIDI OUT. Only connections over USB work properly.

If I mute all timbres in my Combi I still get sporadic note off events!
The keyboard always sends on the global channel.

The consequence is:
I cannot use my Ipad because of
A) hanging notes over MIDI or
B) audio clipping over USB with most synth APPs. (On iPad 1. Maybe no problems with iPad>1?)

I cannot use my Little Phatty with my Kronos because of
A) hanging Notes over MIDI or
B) USB not possible because of wrong port. (Kronos and Phatty want to be slave to a Computer but not each other)

It´s a bloody mess.

Does no other use external equipment via old MIDI cables?
What do you experience with USB and MIDI connections?

I have a standard MIDI cable setup with a Fantom XR amd still get hanging notes.
I managed to minimise it by going into the Kronos MIDI setup for each combi and minimising the data sent to the XR.
It still occurs occasionally and often seems to occur when switching patches/combis,

[QuiRobinez]

The consequence is:
I cannot use my Ipad because of
A) hanging notes over MIDI or
B) audio clipping over USB with most synth APPs. (On iPad 1. Maybe no problems with iPad>1?)

i don't think that an ipad 1 has anything to do with this but i can test this for you since i use an Ipad 1 and an Ipad 3 in the studio, so i can compare this if i know what you use, so which synth apps are giving problems in your case?

I use the ipads a lot in the studio and experience no problems whatsover. The only apps that i have that doesn't work correctly are: sunrizer and ppg wave generator.

Hanging notes on the ipad doesn't occur, but i'm using the usb connector, so maybe that's a difference with your setup.

For sequencing i use two programs on the ipad:
- Genome (step sequencer)
- TNR-I (tenori-on)
both work flawlessly in the kronos combi mode on an ipad 3.


Now i think of it, i had troubles in the past on an ipad 1 with midi and hanging notes, but this was easy to solve by doing a real powercycle on the ipad. After that the problems were gone. You can do a real powercycle by pressing the on/off button and the round button beneath your display together for 10 seconds. Then the ipad completely shuts off and when you start it up again it clears it cache. Everything you have installed is still there, so it's a save proces to do.

[Saxifraga]

Thank you for your answers. I very much appreciate that.
@alanjpearson: Good to see I am not the only one having that problem.
@AdDeRoo: Yes, I did that. Only one device over one short MIDI cable.
@QuiRobinez: I rebooted (powercycle?) my iPad multiple times but it does not help. No APP really works as expected via MIDI(iODock) and USB(camera connection set). There are always hanging notes or clipping. It´s esp. worse if a sound is monophonic and glide is activated. And I get a very long latency btw. Maybe my Phatty and iPad are just not fast enough to proecess those MIDI messages and mix them up?

I uploaded a short video to youtube showing my Kronos/Phatty problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8gIapj6CSg

I also tested my Little Phatty with my old Yamaha CBX-K1XG.
The Yamaha and Moog keyboards are working flawlessly together, regardless of MIDI channel and CC#s. I used CC#11 to modulate the OSC#2 detuning and my Moog reacted perfectly.

It is worthy to note that If I am in Global mode (Kronos) and set local control to OFF and play my Phatty it works very well. The moment I set local control to ON and go into Combi mode it breaks down.

The problem seems to be the Kronos sending on two or multiple channels (local control channel from Global MIDI page and Multi EXT channel) the same note at the same time. I don't understand why the Global channel cannot be deactivated in Multi mode for the EXT split zone!?
When I build a Multi, I don´t want to broadcast all notes on the global channel to all connected instruments and computers.

So Korg never intended to use Combi mode for use with external devices? Then why do we have EXT and EXT2 possibilities?
Or do I misunderstand the design of Korgs Multi mode?

It seems I need an external MIDI filter(patchbay) to get rid of all MIDI messages that are broadcast by the Kronos that are not intended for that specific Instrument.

Never had such problems with any other workstation.

[Saxifraga]

If I understand Korgs manual correct, then this is a feature not a bug. They want it to send on multiple channels. If you layer 16 sounds and route it through 16 Midi devices each with a different number it should work of course. It's not against the Midi specification, but was intended to be the normal method. That's why we have this Midi thru outputs on most keyboards from the 90ties.
So what is different with M3 and Kronos that all my other gear does not like it? It seems the Kronos is 'only' able to work as a soundmodule not as a masterkeyboard. Which makes the title workstation meaningless.
So it's still a suberb synth but not the center of my setup.
I have to use my MacBook and go thru Logic or Mainstage.

[Lou]

From time to time I have experienced this also. The next time this happens try pressing the sustain pedal and see if that releases the hanging note? I have no idea what this has to do with it but it usually works…

[KingJ]

Sounds like you've got a MIDI loop somewhere. You might want to check your MIDI connections.

[danatkorg]

I'm sorry that you're having difficulties. I did a little searching, and noticed this similar message:

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12430

And then I found this:

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.ph ... =75#p93748

It appears that there have been known problems with stuck notes on the Little Phatty, due to problems with its handling of MIDI clock and Active Sense messages. It also sounds like the latest moog firmware may solve the problems (apparently this is the "USB firmware," separate from the main OS firmware); contact moog for details.

As a test, you could try setting the KRONOS MIDI Clock (on the Global -> MIDI page) to External MIDI or External USB; this should stop the transmission of clock messages. If you are using a computer-based MIDI interface as a hub, you may also be able to filter both clock and Active Sense messages there.

Hope this helps - let us know what you find out from moog.

[SanderXpander]

I had hanging notes on my Voyager which was due to a firmware issue (according to Moog). I never tried with external midi but I got it usually from thick slides on its own keyboard. They fixed it under warranty and it has never been an issue again. This is NOT the same as an OS update (which I did as soon as I got the device), it needs opening up the unit and a special J-link connector and whatnot. It was a Voyager, not a Phatty, but it's still worth checking with Moog, I say.

[Saxifraga]

Thank you all very much!

It's nice you are still willing to help me, esp. Dan. Thx!

I think I have the recent version of Phatty OS, but will look into this again tomorrow.
It's near witching hour here in Germany.

Have a good evening, night, morning you all.

[jimknopf]

When I played both my Little Phatty (Tribute Edition, latest OS) and Voyager (latest OS) from my Kronos 73 a while ago, I got the same problem with hanging notes.
I never bothered, because I normally play synth stuff from my second tier Access TI keyboard anyway.

But it would be nice to be able to use the Kronos as masterkeyboard for both Moogs as well, just in case of playing live, e.g. just with a Kronos and the Voyager RME.

I will try to check this once more casually.

[danatkorg]

When I played both my Little Phatty (Tribute Edition, latest OS) and Voayager (latest OS) from the Kronos, I got the same problems.
I never bothered, because I play synth stuff from my second tier Access TI keyboard anyway.

But it would be nice to be able to use the Kronos as masterkeyboard for both as well, just in case of playing live, e.g. just with a Kronos and the Voyager RME.

I will try to check this once more casually.

If I understand correctly, there are two separate firmware updates for the Little Phatty (and perhaps the Voyager as well): the main OS, and the "USB firmware" which, among other things, handles MIDI from the 5-pin DIN inputs. It sounds like it would be possible to have the latest OS, but an older version of the USB firmware. Worth checking.

[jimknopf]

My tribute edition LP does not have USB - so no usb firmware update.
Just midi ins and outs.

[danatkorg]

My tribute edition LP does not have USB - so no usb firmware update.
Just midi ins and outs.

I've also seen mention of separate firmware for the keyboard scanner. It sounds like there have been many discussions on the moog forums about stuck notes with MIDI input, including responses from moog engineers. If you're having problems with this, I'd suggest contacting moog; from all that I hear, they have great support and I'm sure they'll work to help you out.