Kronos... why does it sound so thin compared to PC3K?

cobi · Post by **cobi** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:12 am

Kronos sounds thin? Sounds like joke to me.

When I read postings like that I wonder how some people buy their instruments.
When I spend thousands of dollars for an instrument I check the sound before! I buy it. That's like buying a Porsche and realize later that the old Toyota is the "better" car.

cobi

1jordyzzz · Post by **1jordyzzz** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:26 am

whaat, kronos is thinn??? :wacky:

i've played kurzweil (not pc3, but sp series, same piano sounds), and i can tell you that it's actually kurz piano that sounds verryyy thin..
i think you've must customize the existing sgx-1 patch to your liking.. you can get much of sgx-1 alone... it's pads and synths are faat also... but no comment on kronos guitar.. everyone knows it doesn't sound good.

alanjpearson · Post by **alanjpearson** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:05 am

This "kurzweil vs Korg vs Roland etc etc" comes up all the time and it is virtually meaningless.

And "fat" and "thin" are not good scientific measurements and neither is how you appear to be judging them!

e.g. If you have exactly the same samples on each machine and listen to them side by side through the same amp, with the same EQ, then you are beginning to get close to a proper test. Otherwise how can you compare???

(Cables are irrelevant BTW - the whole industry around using gold etc is a complete sham - a decent set of quality cables is all you need)

Otherwise this is a totally subjective argument and you are making your decision with no factual evidence.

Still, it's your money!

synthguy · Post by **synthguy** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:18 pm

I own a number of romplers. None of them sound the same. If anything sounds "thin" to me, it's the Roland Fantom X. But it's only sliiiiighly thin in comparison. In fact, it's "thin" in a very good way. It complements my other keyboards well, but I also used it solo, and the only thing I don't like are the filters which, dare I say it, sound thin, brittle and "papery."

I own the PC3 and it has a nice sound to it. The Leslie effect is better. However, the only filter I like is the "Mogue," and overall, everything sounds compressed. In fact, some of the presets have master compression - PIANO?! Omygosh... Even without the compressor, the piano sounds compressed, and if you listen to the raw piano samples, you'll be shocked. Completely unnatural.

Kronos is the center of the sonic universe to me, an "everything" sound I love. And it rarely bites me in the butt like the PC3 can when I'm trying to program something. And no, the PC3 does not have a better piano.

But do and think whatever you want to. Just don't equate your experience as some sort of universal truth because obviously it's not.

alex_none · Post by **alex_none** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Guys,
thank you all for your comments.

I tried the PC3K in the same conditions of the Kronos, I mean with a pair of Sony MDR7506, the only ones available in the music shop.

There were a K88 and a PC3K, i had a chance to test them very closely. After that I went home and played my K61 and there my doubts started.

I think I will sell my MOX8, I bought it for complementing the Kronos on some acoustic sounds and I will go for the PC3K keeping my little beast.

It's strange but the sounds of the Kurz literally enchanted me: now I need one.

I understand the PC3K it's an old technology compared to the Kronos but right now I think there's no so good libraries for the Korg that can fill the gap for the kind of sounds I don't find in the K61.

At the same time the streaming capability of the Kronos is an open door on the future: with time I'm sure I will find the sound fonts that I need.

In the end the weighted keyboard of the PC3K plus the Synth action of the K61 will be a good choice. I will miss the MOX8 portability but life is not perfect!

Thanks again guys!

Cheers,

Alex

alanjpearson · Post by **alanjpearson** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:52 pm

..and don't get hung up on "new" versus "old" technology either

Just because it is new doesn't mean it's better.

Give me a real Hammond B3 over a sample or clone any day - I just don't feel able to carry one........

R
Alan

R Brenon · Post by **R Brenon** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:23 am

Thick vs. thin. Stereo vs. mono.
Thick sounds have their place. So do thin.
Can you mix a good track with 16 thick sounds at once?
Opinion I guess.
Korg has an awesome palette of sounds that all can be made thick if you want. Any synth can do this.
Wish they had a Kronos Rack module.
Peace.

billysynth1 · Post by **billysynth1** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:34 am

At this time of year i wouldn't buy anything....NAMM is around the corner, I'd wait a few weeks.

Billy

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:54 pm

I've wondered the same thing, that there's a "sound".

The M3 has a bit of a "thin" sound to my ears, and I've noticed that the eq that's offered up on the main page when you're in Program mode is often tweaked from the factory to emphasize the upper mids and highs, which of course would help it to cut through the mix. I was surprised to find that when I auditioned the Kronos when it first came out that it had much of that same "sound" to my ears, I didn't hear a qualitative leap on most of the patches (piano and eps excepted). I didn't have a true listening environment and take a lot of time either, so these are very general conclusions.

I know I'm in the minority here, but when I had a Motif XS I didn't like its sound either. Both with the M3 and XS I spent huge amounts of time auditioning sounds trying to find their best, and while of course there's alot of them to be found, it was alot of work 'cause overall the boards just weren't doing it for me.

When I got a Nord Stage Classic 88, I was surprised to find that I liked pretty much ALL the sounds I came across- the piano felt and sounded great (this was in part because I finally had a weighted keybed; both the XS and M3 were unweighted, which I've come to find I don't really like), the Wurli was unbelievable, the FX really worked for me and were very accessible, the synth sounds sounded "real", "organic", "alive" compared to ROM samples playing back (I didn't have the radias board), and the organs were of a quality that I could really play them.

I've continued to have an open mind about the Kronos 'cause I'm sold on the concept of there being sound generation from all those engines, the massive unlooped piano, best in class eps, and look forward to being able to afford one and have all the other possibilities onboard that I'd like as well, from sequencer to recording to the set list, smooth sound transition, etc.

I have to admit though if I could only choose one keyboard based on sound quality, I'd choose the Stage. I've come to dislike the tedious process of figuring out which sound is the best out of hundreds of similar sounds, I'm more of a bread and butter kind of player that doesn't want to get overly distracted by too much technology, and what's onboard the Stage sounds really good to my ears, very little tweaking needed.

And the ergonomics of the Kronos vs. the Stage is close to a deal breaker for me. Because the Stage 88 has the pitch/mod wheel on top, I can get the Stage in 76 note bags, and fit it in my living room and on crowded stages. And at 40 pounds, it's just within manageable for schleeping. The K88 by contrast is too long and (and surprisingly deep) as well as too heavy for me at 50 pounds, which means i'd have to compromise and get the 73, which would make me sad 'cause I love the lowest notes on an 88.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:28 pm

I think it really boils down to preference. I consider myself skilled in programming and precise in recreating sounds (a necessity for much of my cover and production work) and I upgraded from my Nord Stage Classic 88 to a Kronos. I've started to really hate the Stage's piano's over the last two years. It has a really weird boomy bass (to me) and with the simple eq on board I could never get it to sound right. It also lacked good strings, brass, etc..

Still like the rhodes though and the interface can't be beaten in a live situation. But all that just goes to show that beauty is in the eye (or ear!) of the beholder.

plisken · Post by **plisken** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:41 pm

I know what you mean by "thin" but thats not really the correct word to use. I have the Kronos and have had a PC3 before it (miss it a lot!).

The reason why a lot of people here are disagreeing with you is because its not that the Kronos is "thin" sounding. Its what I call the "Korg" sound. All Korgs I have ever used sort of sound like there is a slight HPF on the outputs or something. I believe it was this "thin" sound you are referring to that they tried to make up for with the Vacuum tube in the Triton Extreme (and it worked!)

Personally I feeling like the Kronos is more High Fidelity (and it is the most Hi-Fi of all keyboards out right now) then anything else out there.

But the Kurzweil PC3/k series are more "warm" sounding. A lot of people dont like the "warm" sound, thats why they gravitate to a Korg.

I for one love both a lot, I think they complement each other pretty well. Also I will take a mod and pitch wheel over a joystick any day!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:27 pm

A LPF, meaning they lack highs? That wouldn't be described as "thin" by anyone. And if anything, I thought the Korg synths always over-emphasized lows and highs. Many presets have like over 6dB of low and high boost.

plisken · Post by **plisken** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:31 pm

SanderXpander wrote:A LPF, meaning they lack highs? That wouldn't be described as "thin" by anyone. And if anything, I thought the Korg synths always over-emphasized lows and highs. Many presets have like over 6dB of low and high boost.

LOL I meant HPF. Changed it, thanks !

And its very slight, just enough to make a difference.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:31 pm

SanderExpander, I agree that overemphasizing Lows and Highs is something which you can find in too many Korg presets, but we all can fix that fast.

I am talking of the basic Kronos engines' sound, and that is simply pristine from bottom to high range. A Kurz sounds like a LoFi synth in comparison to me, and rather dull than warm, though I know that many people perceive an oversized midrange as 'warm'.

To me it's the overall sonic picture which counts. You can form that sound to your liking, and your success in doing so depends on how much full range in high quality is there from the start in the first place. And concerning this basic overall sound I regard the Kronos as massively superior to good old Kurz. It's really like HiFi versus LoFi in a way.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:55 pm

Oh definitely, I didn't mean that to sound as a criticism really. I've made a habit out of checking the eqs on Korg presets though. Almost always I have to roll off some bass for band use.

I've only been near Kurzweils a few times and wasn't that impressed at the time - distribution in Holland is awful and was non-existent for a while. I wonder what would happen with similar eq settings though.