Recording Audio and Midi via usb simultaneously

Charley Brown · Post by **Charley Brown** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:14 pm

Does anyone know?

Is it possible to record audio and midi simultaneously using two separate hardware USB interface devices? I have (Cubase L6) with ‘Zoom R-24 Recorder’ with no Midi, but I also have an ‘Audiobox USB’ with Midi in and out? I would like to record my midi tracks from the Pa1x via USB to my computer (Windows 7) while recording other audio tracks simultaneously. I could then re mix each track to my liking.

Thanks to anyone ~ Charley Brown

alland · Post by **alland** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:50 pm

Well, recording simultaneously audio and MIDI it is quite common approach and possible to do if computer interfaces and software supports that.
Recording MIDI is usually useful if you want edit music data or try different timbres. Then important aspect is also correct MIDI playback.

Usually I play instrument and record MIDI (one track or more same time), then do perhaps some MIDI editing/corretctions and play back MIDI while recording audio and do some audio mixing later. But there are so many ways to do this all, depending your needs, skills and gear.

Charley Brown · Post by **Charley Brown** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:20 pm

Hello alland:

Thank you for your response.

I may be hoping for the impossible but the reason for exploring this possibility is because I would like to record each of the midi style tracks of the Pa1x on separate tracks. The Pa1x only has four possible audio out puts. If I could somehow record the quantified midi style tracks separately while retaining the original audio sounds of the styles this would give me a greater number of isolated tracks which I could remix at a later time.

I need to record, while at a gig, with as many tracks as possible so that I can edit and remix later on.

If this is possible, what hardware interface and software would you suggest?

Thanks ~ Charley Brown

alland · Post by **alland** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:11 pm

Charley Brown wrote:I may be hoping for the impossible but the reason for exploring this possibility is because I would like to record each of the midi style tracks of the Pa1x on separate tracks. The Pa1x only has four possible audio out puts. If I could somehow record the quantified midi style tracks separately while retaining the original audio sounds of the styles this would give me a greater number of isolated tracks which I could remix at a later time.

With MIDI it is easier - you can just record all that comes from MIDI out (ensuring your Korg Pa1 sends all MIDI channels) and work with that later - splitting MIDI into tracks etc.

When MIDI is recorded correctly then I'd not bother to try to record each Pa1 channel at once, you can later play back separate MIDI channels and let Pa1 play back and record each channel or multiple at once - depending your time and needs.

Charley Brown wrote:I need to record, while at a gig, with as many tracks as possible so that I can edit and remix later on.

I do not know what is your setup for gig, depends what you need to catch from gig (that is more difficult to reproduce later) - vocal, special effects, ambience etc. I would record on separate tracks only most critical and harder to reproduce parts (but knowing that on live gig it is almost impossible fully isolate anything that you record wit mic). I think overall mix would be helpful to be recorded for later work when you do any mixing work.

Charley Brown wrote:If this is possible, what hardware interface and software would you suggest?

Thic is too difficult - depends what (which quality, purpose of recording, etc) you want to achieve, budget, availability of gears in your location etc.

Charley Brown · Post by **Charley Brown** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:47 pm

alland

OK ~ I currently have Cubase 6L software with Zoom R24 Recorder. The problem is that the R24 has no midi in or out. It does have USB out to interface with a computer and that works fine for 8 track simultaneous audio recording. I also have a PreSonius Audiobox USB which does have Midi in and out but only two channels for audio.

If possible I would like to use the Audiobox USB to interface with the Pa1x midi styles and at the same time use the Zoom R24 for audio. I don’t know the necessary configuration to receive and record the original Pa1x sound via midi. I know there is a trick to it. Do you have any idea.

Thanks ~ charley Broan

alland · Post by **alland** » Tue May 01, 2012 6:16 am

Charley Brown wrote:OK ~ I currently have Cubase 6L software with Zoom R24 Recorder. The problem is that the R24 has no midi in or out. It does have USB out to interface with a computer and that works fine for 8 track simultaneous audio recording. I also have a PreSonius Audiobox USB which does have Midi in and out but only two channels for audio.

I do not have any of you gear but from general information about these product I can assume some possible configurations.

1) Zoom24 recorder - AFAIK it has its own recorder inside too but if you say it can give 8 audio channels to computer then it is great. Set up Cubase to record as many audio channlels as you need. If you have to record on gig then I'd record Pa1x stereo out + some other of your audio. No need to try record from Pa1 sperate instrument channels if you also plan record and use MIDI later.

Anyway you probably need streo mix for your gig and this leaves only 2 extra audio channlest from Pa1x - well you may want to route some Pa1x audio tracks to these outputs also for gig purposes (drums, backtrack, solo instruments etc) and if you do, then Zoom24 should have enough channels to record these extra too. This also may save time for later recording when you capture your remaining midi tracks to audio.

2) Presonus USB - use that for capturing and (later) playback Pa1x MIDI. If you want then you can utilize also Presonus two audio channels and record some audio track simultaneously.

3) Assume that you have set up your external gear correctly with computer and running Cubase then you can record all things simultaneously - most important is correctly capture Pa1x MIDI, be sure that Pa1 transmits all needed channels and Cubase is set up properly to reciord all needed MIDI channels.

I do not know Cubase well so you have to work out whether you record all midi channels into one track first and split them later into separate midi tracks for processing in Cubase or you set up Cubase alreadi so that each midi channel from Pa1 lands into separate MIDI tracks.

Well, here I assumed, that your Cubase version allows recording simultaneously MIDI and audio tracks. If not, then you need to find some other DAW software.

Having been set up midi tracks you also set up audio tracks recording in cubase and capture aech necessary audio signal into separate track.

4) Now hera after your first recording session you should have recorded
a) all midi from Pa1, (if in one track all channels then utilise some splitting function each descent DAW should have to split MIDI into separate channel)
b) some audio tracks recorded from session. Let's assume that you just recorded main stereo mix from Pa1 + some vocals and other stage players into separate tracks. You will use later Pa1x recorded mix only as reference track for syncing and do not include it into final mix.

5) Now you can do some secondary recording. You may want to record all your Pa1x sounds (or groups of sounds drums, bass, backup, solos etc) into separate tracks for later mixing. You set up your DAW midi to play (tracks you plan to re-record and isolate) and send midi to Pa1 and set up Pa1 to receive and play back midi that comes from Cubase.

Then you add one or more new audio tracks and record with cubase (while it plays MIDI it records audio from Pa1) any needed instrument into separate audion channel. You can simultaneously record just as much channles as your Pa1 has ouutputs - so 4 mono or 2 stereo channels at time.

It is not easy and simple way, you need to know your DAW software quite well to set up tracks, audio/midi routing properly and also Pa1 to send and receive MIDI/audio properly, but if you want record all audio tracks separately then there is no much shortcuts.

Charley Brown wrote:If possible I would like to use the Audiobox USB to interface with the Pa1x midi styles and at the same time use the Zoom R24 for audio.

Yes, do that.

Charley Brown wrote:I don’t know the necessary configuration to receive and record the original Pa1x sound via midi. I know there is a trick to it. Do you have any idea.

No you cannot get "sound" as such via midi, MIDI is just information what instrument to play and how to play. Instument itself that makes sound is in your case in Pa1 and you have to capture its sound to sound track over sound cable through soundcard.

BTW there are some other ways to do that, but principle is the same. It may be easier to record all your midi performance in Pa1 own sequencer and then play back from Pa1 and record one or two audio channels to computer daw. If you use some clicktrack along with that then later syncing is not difficult (but it takes one audio channel fo this purpose) etc.

Charley Brown · Post by **Charley Brown** » Wed May 02, 2012 3:34 pm

Hello alland:

Thanks for taking the time to explain the procedure and possible configuration. I did not know that it’s possible to record all midi tracks at once via USB and then spit them up later.

I do understand that midi tracks are simply commands without audible musical sounds associated with them. And so, if used to record, it would be necessary to go thru and assign audio sounds to them. Because of that it does not appear possible to simple use the midi out to provide additional audio tracks without taking extra steps.

I’m not certain, but I seem to recall someone on YouTube who explained how to loop the midi signal back into a keyboard in order to record the original sounds. I don't know, maybe this could could be done in order to record the audio tracks in one swipe. I haven’t been able to find that video again to review and evaluate it and to to see if it would work for my purpose. As I said, I would like to record the audio tracks in one swipe.

I do have two Pa1x’s. I have one set up for practice and as a backup and one that I take out for gigs. Maybe it would be easier to connect the two keyboards together via midi and then, maybe, I would have 8 audio outputs to work with. I have never connected them together via midi before. Do you think this would work and would it provide me with 4 extra audio outputs? What is your opinion?

Thanks again ~ Charley Brown

alland · Post by **alland** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:29 am

Charley Brown wrote:I do have two Pa1x’s. I have one set up for practice and as a backup and one that I take out for gigs. Maybe it would be easier to connect the two keyboards together via midi and then, maybe, I would have 8 audio outputs to work with. I have never connected them together via midi before. Do you think this would work and would it provide me with 4 extra audio outputs? What is your opinion?

You can connect another Pa1 via MIDI and this trick gives you exctra audio channels but probably does not make overall setup and workflow easier. You need to set up/configure both Pa1 properly, twice wires etc.

Charley Brown · Post by **Charley Brown** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:56 am

alland:

I'm not sure ~ Can you tell me what you mean by "twice wire etc." ?

Thanks ~ Charley Brown

alland · Post by **alland** » Thu May 03, 2012 5:35 am

Charley Brown wrote:I'm not sure ~ Can you tell me what you mean by "twice wire etc." ?

Just general observation

If you are not sure how to set up MIDI playback/audio recording with one Pa1 then using two of them and getting out meaningful result is even more complicated and there are just twice more things that can go wrong

Charley Brown · Post by **Charley Brown** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:52 pm

alland:

Thank you for your advice. You have been very helpful. The 'Forum' is a treasure.

Thanks again ~ Charley Brown
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