Kronos 88 and RH3 keyboard faulty

[McHale]

In 5o years of playing I've never had to adjust my technique to a specific set of co-ordinates. Pure bullshit, man.

Which is why real pianos also suffer doublestriking when your technique sucks.

[billysynth1]

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Anybody claiming this is a problem caused by technique and positioning of fingers on the keys needs to have thier testicles replaced.

Billy

[McHale]

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Anybody claiming this is a problem caused by technique and positioning of fingers on the keys needs to have thier testicles replaced.

Billy

So real pianos don't doublestrike with poor technique?

[MarPabl]

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Anybody claiming this is a problem caused by technique and positioning of fingers on the keys needs to have thier testicles replaced.

Billy

So real pianos don't doublestrike with poor technique?

I asked about that and it seems this doesn't happen because on RH3 there's no escapement (however, vertical pianos neither have)... But it may be interesting to see this issue on a real piano. Maybe there's something missing on RH3 that is turning this issue worst that it can happen on a real piano. For this reason, more guys have faced this problem.

[GregC]

Wrong side of the key? Hehe, now that's funny. I had no idea that there was a "wrong side of the key".

Absolutely. Watch the video Starless uploaded a few pages ago. Move your fingers closer to the top of the key by the case. When people state that playing with proper technique minimizes the problem and they have to go out of their way to play at the top of the key to exaggerate the problem, sounds like a good place to start if you want to try to attack this from a logical standpoint.
According to the link posted above http://www.kenfoster.com/Articles/Pract ... hnique.htm (ALL USING A REAL PIANO): "It is maintained piano allowing the action parts to reset themselves (referred to as aftertouch). If this is not done, you might be experiencing double strikes, poor tone and sluggish repetition."

OMG, could it be that the RH3 behaves EXACTLY like a real piano? Now who will you blame?

Screw it, play however you want and continue to complain to yourselves. "I'm one of the 99%" (HA! I finally get to say that) where it works fine. I was only trying to help but won't make that mistake again.

McHale, I think you have done alot to clearly define the problem of the rh3 on this thread, probably more than anyone has, to date.

Fatar has manufactured defective controllers before, so it is conceivable they have a big hand in the defect of the 40 or 50 Kronos 73/88s reported here.

[seapea]

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Anybody claiming this is a problem caused by technique and positioning of fingers on the keys needs to have thier testicles replaced.

Billy

Important things are presented objectively, no emotion needed. Refer my post on page 55. I have finally been able to on cue produce cutoff notes, by playing a technique I never use when playing normally. I totally agree my board is shall we say "less faulty" than many and should not exhibit that behaviour, and I look forward to the Korg fix. Mine does not have the same notes consistently "faulty". It only shows up when played in an unusual way. (read post). Let's deal solely in the presentation of the differing experiences we have, and that way easier for the picture of what is happening to see. It no criticism of others to say that the fault that some have is slightly different, and yes for some people, like myself, in normal playing I have no problem. Others of you, it must be be a pain in the butt, and I sympathise. But as I said, lets deal with the issues at hand only.

[rrricky rrrecordo]

Fatar has manufactured defective controllers before, so it is conceivable they have a big hand in the defect of the 40 or 50 Kronos 73/88s reported here.

Presumably you refer to the unfortunate 1% of the 4000-5000 Kronos 73/88 owners registered on the forums here...

...you have almost as much Korg karma as Martin does - lucky you

[GregC]

Fatar has manufactured defective controllers before, so it is conceivable they have a big hand in the defect of the 40 or 50 Kronos 73/88s reported here.

Presumably you refer to the unfortunate 1% of the 4000-5000 Kronos 73/88 owners registered on the forums here...

...you have as almost as much Korg karma as Martin does - lucky you

you are correct, sir. Yes , I have a perfect K88, since 9/1.

I play it about an hour a day, and my ' technique ' is rough. I am tough on it.

No problems, so far.

[jmchiro1]

I'm also having problems with the mechanical keybed of my Kronos 88 with an early SN. About 15 keys, both black and white, have a definite 'klunk' when the key is released, regardless of speed or technique, especially in the upper registers. Also, there are visible gaps between a few of the keys.

This is enough to make the playing suffer a bit. However, I haven't had the note cut offs that others are reporting....mine is stricktly mechanical noise.

I was very surprised by this, because I played a Kronos 88 in Milwaukee at a Korg demo in June, when it was allegedly the only K88 in the country, where the keyboard played flawlessly.

I've reported my issue to Korg USA service, and have also spoken with my local Korg service center in Madison WI. They are certainly willing to take a look at it. I have been delaying a bit to see: 1. if Korg or any forum member comes up with a real fix for the mechanical 'klunk''; 2. When details are released about the memory upgrade, so that I only have to take it once to fix the keybed and upgrade the memory.

My questions:
1. Is there a user adjustment for the keyboard klunk? If so, would that violate the warranty?

2. Do any of you forum members agree that I should just be patient until the memory issue and the keyboard 'klunk' issue are addressed, and can hopefully be fixed with one trip to Korg service?

Thank you, forum members!

[MarPabl]

1. Is there a user adjustment for the keyboard klunk? If so, would that violate the warranty?

Check this thread: A fix for sticky keys and clunky B's and C's

[xtatty]

In 5o years of playing I've never had to adjust my technique to a specific set of co-ordinates. Pure bullshit, man.

Which is why real pianos also suffer doublestriking when your technique sucks.

Tell me something McHale.
If you play your Kronos with whatever technique (wrong or right), does it produce the cut off notes?
If you try hard, can you recreate the phenomenon?

If not, and based on the fact that you have one of the 99% good Kronos out there,
then the RH3 tech it is not affected by the technique of the key player and therefore it does not simulate the real piano that well.

Only a few keybeds (1%) are affected by the technique of the player.
So it is not a matter of technique at all.

There is a flaw in our keybeds and in order to test the board and see if it has it,
maybe playing with "wrong" technique helps you discover it.
Although as i said earlier mine reproduces cut off notes even you have flawless technique!

[EXer]

So real pianos don't doublestrike with poor technique?

I believe not. There's an escapement and a device which catches the hammer after it has struck the strings and which allows for fast repetition; I don't know the English word for it; in French it is called "une attrappe" (litterally translates into "a catch")

[EDIT] the "back check", in English

Anyway pianos are off the subject, and as to RH3 nobody can deny there's an issue regardless of playing technique.

Vids have been posted on this thread that show clearly RH3 double triggers even when the key is pressed on what you would call the "RIGHT" side.

[rrricky rrrecordo]

If you google "bobbling hammers" you'll find that double strikes can occur on a vertical piano if it is poorly designed, incorrectly regulated etc... it is not a normal piano mechanism trait. Bobbling hammers are essentially a non-issue with grand pianos.

Larry Fine also speaks of this issue with vertical pianos in The Piano Book on page 46 in my copy of the Third Edition, but makes no mention of it in regard to grand piano actions.

[jeebustrain]

Ha. nice. I have had absolutely no problems with my keybed up until this morning when I started hearing little clonking noises playing some really fast arpeggios - then I realized that it was just my thumbnail rapping against the key itself. I guess I need a trim.

Sorry to not add anything useful to the conversation. I just thought that was a little funny.

[PianoManChuck]

My original Kronos 88 (since August) had the problem, seems to have gone away once the half-damper pedal was calibrated (a fluke?), but now its back again. I've tried for a few days to record a song with soft passages but can't do it all the way through without the note cutoff problem happening. When the problem went away, I ordered a 2nd K88 for another location, it had the note cutoff problem right out of the box and was exchanged for another K88 with the exact same problem... it was sent back for a refund. So to date, I've had 3 K88's, ALL of which have the note cutoff problem. I get private messages sent to me all the time from my Youtube channel from those who've purchased K88's and experienced the problem and wanted to know if I have.

My first K88 (which I still have) is now sitting there waiting on Korg to come up with a fix. The problem was never reported because it went away for a while. The problem with K88 # 2 and # 3 was never reported to Korg because # 2 was exchanged for # 3, and # 3 was returned for a refund. So of the 3 Kronos 88's that I've had, 100% had the problem. People contact me via PM constantly and end up returning their K88's for exchange (to receive another defective one) or for a refund... in all cases, they were not reported to Korg.

I do believe Korg's statement of "less than 1%" REPORTED is accurate, but people are either exchanging or refunding and NOT reporting, so the problem is apparently much higher than Korg realizes. My keyboard is unplayable at this point, unless I don't play any piano patches with soft passages. The keyboard I needed for a 2nd location would have been a Kronos, but since none of them have worked out, I went ahead and ordered a Nord Stage 2 88. Once Korg fixes this problem, I'll have the best of both worlds, but seriously, this is a problem that never should have happened... Nord tests each and every one of their keyboards thoroughly to make sure they're up to spec... I realize Korg is a bigger company and would have to allocate more resources to accomplish that, but we're talking a LOT of money here... enough that Quality Control should not be taking a back seat to the overall process.

Lastly, I wish certain people would let up with the "playing technique" already... that's so irritating. I've played acoustics and digitals since I was 5 years old... none behave like that, just the Kronos, so knock it off with the "playing technique" already.