CX3 questions

[EvilDragon]

You mean map the sliders to sysex messages.


Still not very fond of this. There should be CC control of those parameters as well. Optional, at least.

[RichF]

Yes, I did. My marathon of post editing continues.

[EvilDragon]

We all have our days. Take it easy, Rich

[GiantSonicRobot]

Here is another question which came to mind when I was studying the OASYS manual (trying to get a good understanding of Kronos' basics):

From what I can tell, the CX-3 offers the possibility to split the keyboard. However, I didn't find out if it is also possible to use two separate keyboards, e.g. the Kronos' internal keyboard plus an external MIDI board. Ideally, I would want to have it set up like a traditional organ with the "swell" manual on top of the "great" manual.

Can this properly be achieved? The only way I found so far would be to create two separate timbres, responding to distinct MIDI channels. While this is fine for most sounds, I believe it would not be satisfactory for a Hammond style organ, because you would effectively end up with two sounds running through separate instances of chorus-vibrato, amp-simulation and Leslie. Separate instances of vibrato and Leslie might be OK as long as they would run in perfect sync (if possible). Two separate overdriven amps however would in any case sound very different from running both signals into just one amp.

In short: Can anybody clarify if the CX-3 in Kronos can be set up to respond to a second keyboard in a way that resembles the classic layout of a B3/C3/A100?
(I believe the good old hardware CX-3 could do this, as can all the other clonewheels I know.)

[burningbusch]

Robot, there might be other ways to achieve what you're trying to do, but the CX3 Rotary Speaker and Vibrato/Chorus effects are available as insert FXs, so you could bypass the internal versions and connect both EXis to the common insert versions.

I do love the fact that the split ON/OFF can be assigned to an AMS controller. Thank you.

Busch.

[GiantSonicRobot]

...the CX3 Rotary Speaker and Vibrato/Chorus effects are available as insert FXs, so you could bypass the internal versions and connect both EXis to the common insert versions.

Thanks, that looks like a good solution.
As far as I can see, the only drawback with this setup would be that if you use the chorus-vibrato as an insert effect, you would actually need an additional timbre for generating the percussion seperately. This is because you probably would want the percussion signal to bypass the vibrato. IIRC this is the actual signal flow of a B3. (But I guess that's just a minor inconvenience.)

[Citizen Klaus]

Here is another question which came to mind when I was studying the OASYS manual (trying to get a good understanding of Kronos' basics):

From what I can tell, the CX-3 offers the possibility to split the keyboard. However, I didn't find out if it is also possible to use two separate keyboards, e.g. the Kronos' internal keyboard plus an external MIDI board. Ideally, I would want to have it set up like a traditional organ with the "swell" manual on top of the "great" manual.

Can this properly be achieved? The only way I found so far would be to create two separate timbres, responding to distinct MIDI channels.

I had much the same question, and Rich Formadoni gave me an answer (that satisfies part of your question) here.

While this is fine for most sounds, I believe it would not be satisfactory for a Hammond style organ, because you would effectively end up with two sounds running through separate instances of chorus-vibrato, amp-simulation and Leslie. Separate instances of vibrato and Leslie might be OK as long as they would run in perfect sync (if possible). Two separate overdriven amps however would in any case sound very different from running both signals into just one amp.

This part, I can answer. The way that CX-3 works (in the OASYS, at least) is that the fixed effects (scanner chorus/vib, rotary speaker) can be enabled or disabled per program. The reason for disabling them is precisely so that multiple CX-3 programs can play nicely together in combi or sequencer mode.

With the internal CX-3 effects turned off, you can then add them to the combi as IFX/MFX/TFX; all the CX-3 effects are included in the OASYS/Kronos' effects list. The rotary speaker effect (Rotary Speaker Pro CX) even includes a setting that allows it to sync up with the CX-3's amp setting (Type 1, Type 2, or off)-- so you'd want that to remain constant between your two CX-3 programs.

Edit: This second part is basically what burningbusch wrote.

[apex]

How do you control the lower manual drawbars with the 9 sliders?

I know the obvious way would be to change it in the tone adjust menu, but then you lose control of the upper manual...

Just wondering if there is a way to control both at the same time? (while in split mode)

[burningbusch]

How do you control the lower manual drawbars with the 9 sliders?

I know the obvious way would be to change it in the tone adjust menu, but then you lose control of the upper manual...

Just wondering if there is a way to control both at the same time? (while in split mode)

You can assign the lower drawbars to the knobs.

Busch.

[apex]

How do you control the lower manual drawbars with the 9 sliders?

I know the obvious way would be to change it in the tone adjust menu, but then you lose control of the upper manual...

Just wondering if there is a way to control both at the same time? (while in split mode)

You can assign the lower drawbars to the knobs.

Busch.

only the 4 user knobs though... right?

[Jon Lord]

How do you control the lower manual drawbars with the 9 sliders?

I know the obvious way would be to change it in the tone adjust menu, but then you lose control of the upper manual...

Just wondering if there is a way to control both at the same time? (while in split mode)

You can assign the lower drawbars to the knobs.

Busch.

only the 4 user knobs though... right?

I guess all 8 in Tone-Adjust mode, but not sure about the 9th drawbar. Maybe it's in the manual but can't bother to open it now

[burningbusch]

You'd have 8 knobs available in tone adjust mode. Yes you would have to give up one drawbar.

Busch.

[popmann]

So, I'm not the first to ask for this. At this point-my single large disappointment in the unit.

This is something that Korg is the only maker I'm aware of who does this drawbars via sysex and not CC. It's absurd, IMO. More absurd now seeing that it was pointed out with the last board and STILL wasn't implemented in the Kronos.

This alone will mean I'm using the old NI B4 for demos.

How hard is it? Doesn't affect any other engine. If the problem is literally controlling different manuals? Just make it a switch. CC or Sysex. I mean, let's be honest-the sliders are not equivalent...so, it's hard the make the argument that there's a huge amount of people who want to kick the pedals and play two manuals and use a single set of mini sliders to control the tone. Just make it switchable by manual. Only one can be CC-second automatically uses sysex (sliders on the Kronos itself).

[GiantSonicRobot]

You'd have 8 knobs available in tone adjust mode. Yes you would have to give up one drawbar.

Busch.

Here's another approach: Instead of using split mode within a CX3 program, I use two timbres for the upper and lower manuals in a combi (as discussed above).
Since every timbre in a combi has its own Tone Adjust settings, I can use the sliders to control the drawbars for both manuals individually.
There is a shortcut for quickly switching which timbre is currently controlled (via the play/mute buttons while holding down the Tone Adj./EQ button).

Takes some getting used to but works well.

[phattbuzz]

You'd have 8 knobs available in tone adjust mode. Yes you would have to give up one drawbar.

Busch.

Here's another approach: Instead of using split mode within a CX3 program, I use two timbres for the upper and lower manuals in a combi (as discussed above).
Since every timbre in a combi has its own Tone Adjust settings, I can use the sliders to control the drawbars for both manuals individually.
There is a shortcut for quickly switching which timbre is currently controlled (via the play/mute buttons while holding down the Tone Adj./EQ button).

Takes some getting used to but works well.

Many Thanks for that Tip! It works quite well.