Real Baby Grand Piano vs 11 basic Korg Kronos Pianos

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:34 am

I put together a video that starts with a real Baldwin Baby Grand piano, then goes on to play the exact same things with the 11 basic pianos included in the stock Korg Kronos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLKFKO8_YpM

This is a fascinating comparison of a basic arpegio played live on a real acoustic piano, followed by the same basic arpegio played live on the Kronos for the 11 basic pianos built in.

The Kronos has much more capability than shown in this video, and all pianos can be custom tailored to however you wish them to be.

It would be awesome to hear which one you thought sounded the best, and why.

Enjoy!

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:39 am

The Kronos sounds better to me...

i would sell the baby grand and buy more kronos's

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:45 am

robbinhood wrote:The Kronos sounds better to me...

i would sell the baby grand and buy more kronos's

I was sort of thinking that too... but its still kinda nice to have a real piano (just in case the power goes out)

billysynth1 · Post by **billysynth1** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:08 am

The baldwin sounds miles better...I just picked up my Kronos 88 today, I wasnt that impressed with the pianos.

The balwin has more gutso to it, the kronos, particularly the high end, sounds very thin.

Also, i killed the polyphony on the Kronos in a few bars just playing rachmaninoff, and playing one of my improvs.

And another thing, playing a chord or note in the bass end and sustaining it does not hold that long, dies out too quickly.

lol

Billy

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:19 am

It has like a hundred voices of polyphony on the piano engine. That's more than it has keys. Unless your standing on the sustain pedal, how do you kill those?
Could you record the passage perhaps?

Jon Lord · Post by **Jon Lord** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:38 am

I think kronos sounds more sterile in that comparison.
Could be also the way you recorded your piano, it has more ambient noise which i like, compared to the kronos piano presets that do not seem to have much reverb etc.

Megakazbek · Post by **Megakazbek** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:57 am

SanderXpander wrote:It has like a hundred voices of polyphony on the piano engine. That's more than it has keys. Unless your standing on the sustain pedal, how do you kill those?

Kronos pianos are stereo, left and right channels use separate voices, so number of actual notes that you can play is half of polyphony spec number, also things like key release noises or pedal resonance require their own voices.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:10 am

SanderXpander wrote:It has like a hundred voices of polyphony on the piano engine. That's more than it has keys. Unless your standing on the sustain pedal, how do you kill those?
Could you record the passage perhaps?

Rachmaninoff can use over 200 notes of polyphony with the way he uses sustain pedal.

Tried and tested with Pianoteq 3. Well, aren't I glad that Pianoteq has 256 notes polyphony!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:26 am

Thing is that your acoustic piano isn't really miced very well.

If you miced it in a similar professional recording environment to that which the Kronos samples were made, it might be an interesting comparison.

I think when it comes to acoustic sounds on electronic instruments like the Kronos and particularly other sample-based workstations, you have to consider the sounds that come out of it are almost finalised recording quality.

Meaning it's as if you've already been to the studio with the instrument in question. A comparison with a 'live' environment will always be very different.

EXer · Post by **EXer** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:47 pm

Megakazbek wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:It has like a hundred voices of polyphony on the piano engine. That's more than it has keys. Unless your standing on the sustain pedal, how do you kill those?
Kronos pianos are stereo, left and right channels use separate voices, so number of actual notes that you can play is half of polyphony spec number, also things like key release noises or pedal resonance require their own voices.

Add velocity cross fading and that may halve the polyphony once more...
I'm not surprised that 128 "notes" of a sample based engine are eaten up quickly when playing classical piano with a heavy use of the pedal...

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:00 pm

But I guess non of you is naive or cluesless enough, to believe that a modern synth workstation is built for classical piano players giving Rachmaninoff concerts?

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:57 pm

Jon Lord wrote:I think kronos sounds more sterile in that comparison.
Could be also the way you recorded your piano, it has more ambient noise which i like, compared to the kronos piano presets that do not seem to have much reverb etc.

X-Trade wrote:Thing is that your acoustic piano isn't really miced very well.

If you miced it in a similar professional recording environment to that which the Kronos samples were made, it might be an interesting comparison.

I think when it comes to acoustic sounds on electronic instruments like the Kronos and particularly other sample-based workstations, you have to consider the sounds that come out of it are almost finalised recording quality.

Meaning it's as if you've already been to the studio with the instrument in question. A comparison with a 'live' environment will always be very different.

You both have valid points. There's definitely more ambient noise in the real environment. The mic was actually about 2 ft away from the open lid. It was mic'd with a Zoom H4n. I may have to try it again usuing a Shure SM57 placed closer to the soundboard.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:41 pm

Mic'ing a real grand piano takes proper equipment and knowledge. In certain recordings it will be hard to tell the difference with many of todays DPs, however, playing a great grand piano is certainly a far different experience than playing the Kronos. The Kronos doesn't even do sympathetic resonance not to mention the obvious hurdles of replicating the way sound is generated and is projected from a piano.

vstkeys · Post by **vstkeys** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:13 pm

IMO all vst and keyboard piano patchs today are missing the Woody sound of a real piano, I am not sure why. I have tried nearly everything that is out there on vst + my kronos and none got a woody timbre to it all sterile

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:30 pm

Rachmaninoff can use over 200 notes of polyphony with the way he uses sustain pedal.

Tried and tested with Pianoteq 3. Well, aren't I glad that Pianoteq has 256 notes polyphony!

ED, was this a MIDI file. If so, can you point to it?

Thanks.

Busch.