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[aron]

>I'm still strugging to see how this is even an issue. You (and others) have admitted the cosmetic defects you see have not impacted your playing ability at all...

I understand that some people are used to a higher standard than others. Think about it, many people were happy with their boards and didn't say a thing about it. Maybe the tolerances are not that good. What did happen is several people went vocal over it and now more people think it's a problem - even though the problem may have gone unnoticed.

My stuff gets busted up with all the gigs I do. If a problem affected my playing - I would say something. I have noticed uneven heights from keyboards all through the years. Hasn't any played a Pratt-Reed (sp?) keyboard? How many people complain about that?

It may also be the case that the Kronos may not be made to a standard of quality that a few people want. It's only a guess whether it's good enough for others.

It's an individual thing. What kind of watch do people wear? Some people cannot stand a cheap watch - needs to be mechanical and crafted. Some people expect a sapphire crystal, others can live with plain glass. But don't make the guy that has a glass crystal feel like he's subpar and should be expecting sapphire. Why ruin his day when he was happy before?

[Ojustaboo]

I'm still strugging to see how this is even an issue. You (and others) have admitted the cosmetic defects you see have not impacted your playing ability at all...So then aside from someone else coming up to your kronos, going down to eye-level at the keybed and commenting on how it doesn't look perfect, who cares?

If it was impacting your playing, I could certainly see it as a valid complaint. But if the changes and differences are purely cosmetic for you - that would be very low on my list of things to fix from korg.

(I will try to get pics of mine tonight if I remember).

Sorry but I disagree with you.

I'm new to these forums having just brought a M3 but am very interested in the Kronos.

For you, you maybe happy to ignore cosmetic defects and if the board cost $100 then I probably would too. But when something costs as much as the Kronos does, I would expect quality. Seeing the data wheel with the tape and reading through this thread, the question that springs to mind is very simple.

If so little care appears to have been taken over say something as important as the data wheel design, cosmetic defects, the state of some peoples keyboards ( slightly uneven height is bad though, but reading about the top key being so much out??) etc, if I was thinking about buying the Kronos now (and if I had the money I would be), the question I would ask myself is that if so little care hess been put into those parts, what else has been made cheaply, what horrors are awaiting me say six months to a year down the line?

Have they also cut costs with say the touch screen or the sliders etc. hopefully no they haven't and it's just been bad luck and a bad batch, but if I spent that much on a keyboard,i would be horrified by some of the things I've seen and read on this forum and someone at Korg needs to have serious words with the quality control department.

I really really hope this isn't a result of say new top management lowering quality to make more profit because thats the sort short sighted thing many companies have done over the years and once your product gets a name for being cheaply built, it can take years to recover.

One further example on how I look at the complaints I've been reading about. If I brought the cheapest new car I could find, I wouldn't be surprised if it had loose and badly fitting buttons. If however I'd brought a brand new Rolls Royce and found misaligned items on the dashboard, badly fitted panelling on say the doors and found that say the heater switch came off in my hand only to discover it's only held on by sticky tape, I wouldn't be pleased.

If I then along with others went onto a Rolls Royce forum to complain about the apparent build quality and raise my concerns as to what the rest of the car is like, having others come along and say something along the lines of "I don't see this as an issue, the car still drives fine" in my opinion is not only wrong, it could give anyone from Rolls Royce that reads it the opinion that they can keep reducing the costs further and further because there are enough loyal fans out there who will buy it whatever, and as long as it drives them from a to b, they will turn a blind eye to things most of us wouldn't put up with.

When I first read about the Kronus and after watching various demos, I really really wished I could have got one instead of my M3, but after reading threads in this forum, I am honestly glad I didn't. I'm hoping that it turns out just to be a glitch in the current batches and things improve (and people aren't reporting numerous problems 12 months after buying etc), but the bad quality control on what I've seen has done Korg real (hopefully short term) damage in my opinion of the quality of their flagship synth and I suspect I'm not alone.

Best

Joe

Edit: Just seen the next post after yours Bruce also uses a car as an example, I hadn't read that when I typed this

[McHale]

OK, for those with issues about the keys not being level, I promise, it's NOT an issue. There's nothing wrong with the keys, keybed, Kronos chassis, etc. The "issue" is caused by the manufacturer (Korg designed it, someone else manufactured it - confirmed), using a thick, high quality felt strip which the keys use to stop. As you play the keyboard, it will probably mat down a little and level up. The benefits of the thick felt is a more solid, professional feel. If you have a key which is lower than the rest, GENTLY lift up on the key and you'll feel the felt give. Do that enough and it will be level. Hard to explain but you'll feel what I'm talking about when you try that.

[aron]

Cool. Nice post!

[McHale]

Forgot to mention: The keybed seems to weigh more than the rest of the synth.

Also, the graded metal hammers are a pretty cool design. I've seen many 88 key keybeds that just have heavier weights or some other restriction to slow the action. The RH3 has actual hammers.

[Qtipcore]

Hmmm ...

These pictures remind me of someone that buildt the Triton Extreme into an old upright... Was that you McHale?

Here is the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJhPJaRRcns

[Kim]

Thanks McHale for the courage to look more deeply into the design of Kronos. If this really is the cause of the problem, it is easily remedied. And most important: anyone can do it! No need to part with your precious instrument for weeks

I'm interested to see, does this work for Bruce's keyboard as well...

Anyway, I'm sleeping better because of this, since I'm still waiting for my 88 Kronos and the keyboard was a big selling point to me. I loved the action when I played the 88 demo model in the store. And I'm a very picky one when it comes to keybeds. Parting from my Yamaha P-120 for the favor of Kronos was a hard decision to make.

However, there have been some quality issues that have made me think. The data wheel (my face turned into a palm when I heard of it the first time, but cudos to Korg for fixing it quickly), loud fan (seems to be only in some 61-key versions), keyboard issues etc need an explanation from Korg. What I would like to know is, does the problem lie in 1. design, 2. the workmanship of subcontractors (where are the parts made anyway?) or 3.quality control?

[EXer]

OK, for those with issues about the keys not being level, I promise, it's NOT an issue. There's nothing wrong with the keys, keybed, Kronos chassis, etc. The "issue" is caused by the manufacturer (Korg designed it, someone else manufactured it - confirmed), using a thick, high quality felt strip which the keys use to stop. As you play the keyboard, it will probably mat down a little and level up. The benefits of the thick felt is a more solid, professional feel [...]

Thanks for that review, McHale.

Just wondering:
• where is the keybed made (China?)
• if the felt mats down after the keys have been played a lot, couldn't that end up in an uneven keyboard after some time due to some keys being played more than others (a piano needs periodic voicing of the hammers due to wear of the felt)?

[PinkFloydDudi]

If I brought the cheapest new car I could find, I wouldn't be surprised if it had loose and badly fitting buttons. If however I'd brought a brand new Rolls Royce and found misaligned items on the dashboard, badly fitted panelling on say the doors and found that say the heater switch came off in my hand only to discover it's only held on by sticky tape, I wouldn't be pleased.

You didn't buy a rolls royce buddy!!! You bought the midrange car!

There is a reason the Oasys is upwards of $7,000+!!!! THAT is your Rolls Royce. The real german grand piano that costs $100,000...THAT is your Rolls Royce.


I can tell now after seeing McHale's post that if they didn't put that felt there, likely the same people would be bitching about the action of the keys.

Can't please everyone. Something has to give somewhere.

[PianoManChuck]

Parting from my Yamaha P-120 for the favor of Kronos was a hard decision to make.

One of my favorite keyboards was the Yamaha P-120 and I thought I was going to really miss it when I sold it to raise some money to buy the Kronos 88. I'm very picky on keyboard action, but I have zero regrets on selling the P-120 due to the great action on the Kronos 88.

[Bruce Lychee]

If I brought the cheapest new car I could find, I wouldn't be surprised if it had loose and badly fitting buttons. If however I'd brought a brand new Rolls Royce and found misaligned items on the dashboard, badly fitted panelling on say the doors and found that say the heater switch came off in my hand only to discover it's only held on by sticky tape, I wouldn't be pleased.

You didn't buy a rolls royce buddy!!! You bought the midrange car!

There is a reason the Oasys is upwards of $7,000+!!!! THAT is your Rolls Royce. The real german grand piano that costs $100,000...THAT is your Rolls Royce.


I can tell now after seeing McHale's post that if they didn't put that felt there, likely the same people would be bitching about the action of the keys.

Can't please everyone. Something has to give somewhere.

Forget the Rolls Royce. I can't think of an action that comes so badly aligned at any price in today's market... Not even the $700 Akai controller I checked out yesterday.

Nothing has to give if they just designed and manufactured the action properly.

I can overlook some of the other compromises they made, but this one should have been covered in How to Build a Keyboard 101.

[keyplayer14]

[/quote]
Forget the Rolls Royce. I can't think of an action that comes so badly aligned at any price in today's market... Not even the $700 Akai controller I checked out yesterday.

Nothing has to give if they just designed and manufactured the action properly.

I can overlook some of the other compromises they made, but this one should have been covered in How to Build a Keyboard 101.[/quote]


Still waiting for my 88 ( though not for much longer if the latest information is correct ) so I'm reserving judgement for the moment, except to say that I'm not sure I could live with the keybed alignment in your photos.
However, it does seem that a high percentage of people are not reporting this issue and are perfectly happy, which may point to an issue with one batch. I'll be interested to see what response you recieve from Korg support.

[PinkFloydDudi]

If I brought the cheapest new car I could find, I wouldn't be surprised if it had loose and badly fitting buttons. If however I'd brought a brand new Rolls Royce and found misaligned items on the dashboard, badly fitted panelling on say the doors and found that say the heater switch came off in my hand only to discover it's only held on by sticky tape, I wouldn't be pleased.

You didn't buy a rolls royce buddy!!! You bought the midrange car!

There is a reason the Oasys is upwards of $7,000+!!!! THAT is your Rolls Royce. The real german grand piano that costs $100,000...THAT is your Rolls Royce.


I can tell now after seeing McHale's post that if they didn't put that felt there, likely the same people would be bitching about the action of the keys.

Can't please everyone. Something has to give somewhere.

Forget the Rolls Royce. I can't think of an action that comes so badly aligned at any price in today's market... Not even the $700 Akai controller I checked out yesterday.

Nothing has to give if they just designed and manufactured the action properly.

I can overlook some of the other compromises they made, but this one should have been covered in How to Build a Keyboard 101.

I know and if they had put a smaller piece of felt which would impact the action you'd complain about that too.

Buy the $700 Akai and move along.

[Jeremy Bender]

Thanks McHale!

But, how does this explain my clunky keys where it seems there is nothing stopping them knocking on the case (or so it sounds)? I posted about this in the other thread about the keyed quality (the stage piano thread) and whilst it doesn't affect playing my top key is low and most of the black keys in upper octaves plus the lowest and highest white keys make a clunking noise

I'm not sure I am brave enough to open it up and check!

[aron]

The part I don't understand is that .... this action is in other keyboards right? How come we don't hear about other people complaining like this? Are the Kronos buys a bunch of complainers?

Maybe it's the way the posts are made. Complaints instead of statements - which really should go to the company after the first few posts are made.

If I were bothered enough to write day in and day out about a problem that affected my time enough to feel I have to write every day about it, I would probably get rid of the keyboard. That's what I certainly did with several keyboards. Now that I think about it, I didn't complain enough about those [/b]