Kronos (hardware) vs Komplete8 (software)

[rrricky rrrecordo]

Finally - though I've only started to use it - I find Omnishpere very superficial. Yes it sounds 'massive' like an instant "Inception soundtrack" synth engine - but honestly - I found many if not most of its presets unusable in any sort of practical situation - it's all too much ear-candy, too much gargantuan and gigantic processed-to-hell stuff, and the underlying samples about average. Simply put, there's nothing left for me to do or explore - I may as well put on a Hanz Zimmer Soundtrack for all the interactivity I feel I can have with Omnisphere. I'm quite surprised at how unusable it is. I'd say if you're a composer of games or teen-horror movies you'll love it, but beyond that it's incredibly unusable. I also found Omni TR to be trite and at best novel, but certainly not a serious synthesis control environment which, for example. iMS20 is; and with its Kaoss controllers propvides serious performance capabilities in a way Omni TR doesn't seem to offer. My two pennys worth on Omnisphere. I suppose I'm one of those who has to create or at least interact with the sound I'm using to create music, and Omnisphere leaves me out in the cold. Quite disappointing actually. I had bough the software before I had a computer to run it on properly - and only recently have been using it and as said - for me - it went down like a lead baloon.

I've been using Omnisphere since 1.0 regularly in all sorts of productions, from pop, rock and folk to meditation and relaxation backing tracks to dance and hiphop tracks for various clients. It's paid for itself many times over and is probably my most used software synth - and I have bought my fair share. As for the Omni TR iPad app, I think it's brilliant for coming up with interesting new textures and grooves - inspiration without end.

Mileage will vary

[Bruce Lychee]

Kevin, I'm very interested in an eletronic notation solution. That would be my main reason to buy an iPad or iPad2, even though my computer hardware is Windows 7 based and not Mac .

IPad2 + AirTurn works great with a number of programs.

[Bruce Lychee]

Anyone have a thought on whether using the new Apple Thunderbolt display as a dock will cause additional latency? It has 3 USB and 1 FireWire, so I thought it would be a good way to dock my new MacBook without having to constantly remove all the cords for my gear. I know the Thunderbolt connection is fast, but I'm not sure about using the USB ports on the display.

[RonF]

I think TBolt is plenty fast and *should* not cause notable latency (additional)....however...many manufacturers of Audio Interfaces, such as Apogee, suggest, if not even require (for stability and support), that you plug your I/O directly into the computer.....and not into a HUB. The USB ports on the TBolt display, or even on the Cinema display, are nothing more than a HUB. So it may be advisable if not essential that you plug your interface directly in to your MacBookPro....and use the other ports/HUBs for less critical functions. Your MacBookpro has 2 usb ports on it. So you could use one for the Audio Interface. One for an external drive for audio recording or sample playback. And then use the ports on the TBolt drive for your other less critical peripherals.

[RonF]

I agree with you very much - except for one point - the iPad on its own is definitely NOT a musical toy - that's how I use it and it has revolutionised the way I manage and deal with music. I've posted a list of uses below which I posted before but which I feel is worth mentioning here.

A few questions for you:
- Does the Alesis I/O Dock allow for MIDI sync with external devices - for exampel the iMS20 or iElectribe syncing to the Kronos sequencer or with Logic Pro?

- Can the combination of iPad + Garageband + Alesis I/O Dock act as a mini-DAW - most especially for MIDI sequencing? For example - could you play the Kronos keyboard, have what's played be recorded into a MIDI track in Garageband, and have that track then play another synth also hooked up via MIDI?


Finally - though I've only started to use it - I find Omnishpere very superficial. Yes it sounds 'massive' like an instant "Inception soundtrack" synth engine - but honestly - I found many if not most of its presets unusable in any sort of practical situation - it's all too much ear-candy, too much gargantuan and gigantic processed-to-hell stuff, and the underlying samples about average. Simply put, there's nothing left for me to do or explore - I may as well put on a Hanz Zimmer Soundtrack for all the interactivity I feel I can have with Omnisphere. I'm quite surprised at how unusable it is. I'd say if you're a composer of games or teen-horror movies you'll love it, but beyond that it's incredibly unusable. I also found Omni TR to be trite and at best novel, but certainly not a serious synthesis control environment which, for example. iMS20 is; and with its Kaoss controllers propvides serious performance capabilities in a way Omni TR doesn't seem to offer. My two pennys worth on Omnisphere. I suppose I'm one of those who has to create or at least interact with the sound I'm using to create music, and Omnisphere leaves me out in the cold. Quite disappointing actually. I had bough the software before I had a computer to run it on properly - and only recently have been using it and as said - for me - it went down like a lead baloon.

Anyway, I'd be grateful for any answers you can provide on the capabilities of iPad with Garageband and Alesis IO Dock - mostespecially with respect to MIDI control of external hardware and MIDI sync with other devices.

thanks,
Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

Let me try to answer your questions....

1. My reference to iPad being a "toy" standalone may be a bit harsh...especially considering that its the same overall functionality whether its standalone or in a dock....BUT..... The I/O in the Alesis Dock is notably better than the 1/8" audio out on the iPad. The ability to charge the iPad whilst using midi and audio is important to me, as previously described. The Dock provides both USB and DIN midi at the same time. and it is a much sleeker ergonomic when its in the Dock, with all connections hardwired to the rear of the dock, rather than spaghetti hanging off both ends of the iPad, and a dedicated full size volume Knob (two actually....its a two buss system). The Dock also has a DIRECT monitoring functionality (switchable) so you can hardwire your keyboards and sound sources to it, and switch in the monitoring or not, depending on your application (use iPad as a DAW, or EFFECT, as opposed to a Synth) All in all, its a much more PRO solution....but that certainly does not belittle the overall functionality and mobility of the iPad, which is clearly the same on or off the dock.

The I/O Dock has both USB midi....to connect to your computer as a midi device....and DIN midi I/O....both of which function simultaneously. Any app that supports core midi will support all midi protocol which is present in the app. So whether or not an app has native midi sync functionality, is app dependent. Example.....Korg iElectribe does (its wonderful!), iMS20 does not (and I do not understand WHY Korg chose not to implement this here!!!???). But, when its present...it will work seamlessly, and via multiple ports, with I/O Dock.

GarageBand for iPad does provide for Midi input, so that you can midi record with an external keyboard controller. But it does not provide for midi output at current version. So you cannot route the midi thru...and therefore cannot midi sequence external gear. Its just a matter of time, I would think, before that gets added. BTW...this functionality does not exist in Garage Band for Mac either.....at this time. But you can use a keyboard to record and sequence the onboard instruments, some of which are very nice. Moreover....and perhaps more interesting and germane to a Kronos thread.....you can record pristine 16 bit audio, in stereo, up to 8 stereo tracks, and then have the full touchscreen DAW editing functions of Garage Band, which are very similar to Logic. In this way, its sort of a dream match with Kronos.....but alas...until they include outbound midi sync, and midi-out, it cannot be what would otherwise be the ultimate supplemental sequencer for Kronos.

Regarding Omnisphere......its a big topic....but my simple response to your comments is....go back and dig deeper! I agree, some of the presets are very large and "soundscapey", and therefore not very practical.....but that is only a small fraction of what is included with Omni. I love your comment about it being an instant Inception Soundtrack.....great analogy! And it can be true...but that is not the whole story. You have to find the "sound source browser".

This is a common topic of frustration or confusion about Omni....it has 3 separate browsers....(Patch, Multi, and SoundSource). Everyone jumps to the Multi browser first, it seems, because its located most prominently at the typical top center of the interface. Here you have the biggest "combis" and the most "instant Inception Soundtracks". But its a fairly small number of preset Multis (still Hundreds), as compared to the Patch Browser, where you have thousands of individual patches, and the diversity is immense....so I cannot see, if you dig here how you don't find EVERYTHING from epic soundscapes, to Percussion, to choirs, to raw and in your face synths, to pads, to horns, to strings, etc. But wait!

Then you have to dig around to find the Sound Source browser....which contains the "partials" to the Patches. Now you have a ridiculously large inventory of everything under the sun~!! And, it has been made public that the Patch browser only actually uses something like 50% (don't quote me on the exact percentage please) of the Sound Sources in the Sound Source Browser. There is no way anyone could "pigeon-hole" this sound source inventory....because it is so immense and diverse.....there is an abundance for anyone and anything in there.

Then I would also suggest you consider purchasing the add-on sound library...the Bob Moog Colllection. This collection is utterly mind blowing to me.....as it turns Omni into one of the best virtual Moog synths I have heard. It also contains some of Hans Zimmer's own creations that he has used on numerous soundtracks, sampled from Hans' own Moog Modular and other Moog synths. The Hans Zimmer Percussion patch in Omni is just friggin the BEST.

Then you must consider the synth architecture of Omni....including its multi point and fully routable envelopes and LFO's. You can program so much with these, the mind boggles. We haven't even touched on the new OMNI TR iPad app....which takes everything to a new level of performance and composition....with a very hardware feel. I am only touching the major points....you need to dig and learn about OMNI...because, though it has wonderful and diverse presets in the thousands.....it is ANYTHING but a preset- ROMpler.

You'll notice how i described this multi layer synth architecture (Multi/patch/soundsource), and I would be remiss if I did not draw a comparison, in my mind, to the Jupiter 80. I know...sore subject....but very briefly....this is one of the first impressions I had of the JP80 when I sat down with it in depth...it reminds me of Omnisphere and its "Live Mode" where you can combine so many layers, and have them play and evolve in real time. Omnisphere takes this to another level...of course...with its 50 gigabyte sound library. As I understand, to sit and demo the entire sound library of Omni would take you something like 10 years non-stop, mathematically. So again...I suggest you dig deeper. Some of the raw material in there is just astoundingly good....and then the synth architecture is beyond any hardware synth in existence, in many ways. Sound quality will of course depend more on your audio interface than anything else. But the overall character and quality of Omni is second to none. Its the most used, and one of only a very few softsynths, that I ever turn to...and I own dozens.....

Don't forget that another very interesting usage of Omni is to feed it into Kronos audio inputs, and then patch, modulate, and effect internally on Kronos...for even more interesting results!

Hope all this helps, my friend!

Ron

[Bruce Lychee]

I think TBolt is plenty fast and *should* not cause notable latency (additional)....however...many manufacturers of Audio Interfaces, such as Apogee, suggest, if not even require (for stability and support), that you plug your I/O directly into the computer.....and not into a HUB. The USB ports on the TBolt display, or even on the Cinema display, are nothing more than a HUB. So it may be advisable if not essential that you plug your interface directly in to your MacBookPro....and use the other ports/HUBs for less critical functions. Your MacBookpro has 2 usb ports on it. So you could use one for the Audio Interface. One for an external drive for audio recording or sample playback. And then use the ports on the TBolt drive for your other less critical peripherals.

I will have to check this out as the only reason I would want the Thunderbolt monitor is so that it can act as an effective hub for my Mac. It might have to be a buy and test scenario.

[X-Trade]

I think TBolt is plenty fast and *should* not cause notable latency (additional)....however...many manufacturers of Audio Interfaces, such as Apogee, suggest, if not even require (for stability and support), that you plug your I/O directly into the computer.....and not into a HUB. The USB ports on the TBolt display, or even on the Cinema display, are nothing more than a HUB. So it may be advisable if not essential that you plug your interface directly in to your MacBookPro....and use the other ports/HUBs for less critical functions. Your MacBookpro has 2 usb ports on it. So you could use one for the Audio Interface. One for an external drive for audio recording or sample playback. And then use the ports on the TBolt drive for your other less critical peripherals.

I will have to check this out as the only reason I would want the Thunderbolt monitor is so that it can act as an effective hub for my Mac. It might have to be a buy and test scenario.

Thunderbolt is effectively a serial extension of the PCIe bus. It is extremely fast.
It really should work, I'd be disappointed if it didn't.

The USB and firewire 'hub' would be straight on the system bus, rather than being a hub which goes through your USB root hub like if you were connecting through a USB hub through your computer's USB ports. So effectively it is another root-level hub.

As if to illustrate the point, I recently received a brochure from a creative IT supplies company. Was quite impressed to see in their Thunderbolt section, external PCIe enclosures in which you can install firewire, USB, SATA controller, graphics etc cards and connect to your laptop or desktop mac with Thunderbolt.

I would be very disappointed if it didn't work out as effective as it sounds like it should.

[Dany]

Finally - though I've only started to use it - I find Omnishpere very superficial. Yes it sounds 'massive' like an instant "Inception soundtrack" synth engine - but honestly - I found many if not most of its presets unusable in any sort of practical situation - it's all too much ear-candy, too much gargantuan and gigantic processed-to-hell stuff, and the underlying samples about average. Simply put, there's nothing left for me to do or explore - I may as well put on a Hanz Zimmer Soundtrack for all the interactivity I feel I can have with Omnisphere. I'm quite surprised at how unusable it is. I'd say if you're a composer of games or teen-horror movies you'll love it, but beyond that it's incredibly unusable. I also found Omni TR to be trite and at best novel, but certainly not a serious synthesis control environment which, for example. iMS20 is; and with its Kaoss controllers propvides serious performance capabilities in a way Omni TR doesn't seem to offer. My two pennys worth on Omnisphere. I suppose I'm one of those who has to create or at least interact with the sound I'm using to create music, and Omnisphere leaves me out in the cold. Quite disappointing actually. I had bough the software before I had a computer to run it on properly - and only recently have been using it and as said - for me - it went down like a lead baloon.

Dear Kevin,

Did you update Omnisphere to the newest version 1.5? Please watch this Video:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/20020519? ... autoplay=0

Eric Persing will show you for example, how you can creaete already incredible sounds with just a simple saw or sin wave only using the Harmonia Function or the Waveshaper or the Granular Synthesis. It is mindblowing!!!!
Learn and inform yourself and then work hard on it and you will be able to build a better opinion about Omnisphere...Especially a talented person with your intellectual capacity will love Omnisphere... Omnsiphere is deep, don't let yourself be fooled by some factory presets and the first shallow impression!!!!

Best wishes, Dany

PS: Some tutorial videos: http://www.spectrasonics.net/video/vide ... sphere.php

-

[apex]

Finally - though I've only started to use it - I find Omnishpere very superficial. Yes it sounds 'massive' like an instant "Inception soundtrack" synth engine - but honestly - I found many if not most of its presets unusable in any sort of practical situation - it's all too much ear-candy, too much gargantuan and gigantic processed-to-hell stuff, and the underlying samples about average. Simply put, there's nothing left for me to do or explore - I may as well put on a Hanz Zimmer Soundtrack for all the interactivity I feel I can have with Omnisphere. I'm quite surprised at how unusable it is. I'd say if you're a composer of games or teen-horror movies you'll love it, but beyond that it's incredibly unusable. I also found Omni TR to be trite and at best novel, but certainly not a serious synthesis control environment which, for example. iMS20 is; and with its Kaoss controllers propvides serious performance capabilities in a way Omni TR doesn't seem to offer. My two pennys worth on Omnisphere. I suppose I'm one of those who has to create or at least interact with the sound I'm using to create music, and Omnisphere leaves me out in the cold. Quite disappointing actually. I had bough the software before I had a computer to run it on properly - and only recently have been using it and as said - for me - it went down like a lead baloon.

Dear Kevin,

Did you update Omnisphere to the newest version 1.5? Please watch this Video:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/20020519? ... autoplay=0

Eric Persing will show you for example, how you can creaete already incredible sounds with just a simple saw or sin wave only using the Harmonia Function or the Waveshaper or the Granular Synthesis. It is mindblowing!!!!
Learn and inform yourself and then work hard on it and you will be able to build a better opinion about Omnisphere...Especially a talented person with your intellectual capacity will love Omnisphere... Omnsiphere is deep, don't let yourself be fooled by some factory presets and the first shallow impression!!!!

Best wishes, Dany

PS: Some tutorial videos: http://www.spectrasonics.net/video/vide ... sphere.php

-

the orb is very cool!!!! but i don't know if I agree that it's unlike anything that any other synth has... it seems very similar to the x-y mode on the m3 (by the way, does the Kronos have x-y mode?)... or also similar to what you can do with Kore

except for the bounding around thing. that was really nice.

basically it seems like it's changing multiple parameters all at once based on where the ball is in the orb. (does that sound right?)

[X-Trade]

it seems very similar to the x-y mode on the m3 (by the way, does the Kronos have x-y mode?)...

KRONOS does not have X/Y mode. However the M3's X/Y mode was effectively equivalent to the vector joystick functionality in OASYS (and thus now the Kronos).

[RonF]

KRONOS does not have X/Y mode. However the M3's X/Y mode was effectively equivalent to the vector joystick functionality in OASYS (and thus now the Kronos).

How is this not a contradiction in terms? Vector is X/Y mode. Its just a different controller than a touch pad. I think were just saying the same thing. : )

[X-Trade]

KRONOS does not have X/Y mode. However the M3's X/Y mode was effectively equivalent to the vector joystick functionality in OASYS (and thus now the Kronos).

How is this not a contradiction in terms? Vector is X/Y mode. Its just a different controller than a touch pad. I think were just saying the same thing. : )

Well, yes. That was kind of my point.

But when people ask about X-Y mode they specifically mean as it is implemented on the M3 - using the touchscreen.

[RonF]

KRONOS does not have X/Y mode. However the M3's X/Y mode was effectively equivalent to the vector joystick functionality in OASYS (and thus now the Kronos).

How is this not a contradiction in terms? Vector is X/Y mode. Its just a different controller than a touch pad. I think were just saying the same thing. : )

Well, yes. That was kind of my point.

But when people ask about X-Y mode they specifically mean as it is implemented on the M3 - using the touchscreen.

understood!

[Bruce Lychee]

Well the kids at Apple assured me that plugging into the thunderbolt monitor hub will be as fast as plugging directly in to the MacBook. The one specialist said I should experience no increase in latency... And if I do, I can return it for a full refund. Lol.

I ordered the Thunderbolt monitor to replace my existing monitor and to act as a hub for my MacBook, for which nobody makes a decent hub. Turns out I can't hook up my PC that I was using as music server to the Thunderbolt monitor so I had to buy a Mac mini to replace that. Somewhere along the line this was supposed to be simple.

Anyone looking for a not cheap silent PC on the cheap? You know who to pm.

Also any chance I can get logic or anything else relevant running on that mini?

[Sina172]

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