I don't understand what's Factory and what's Extra

[nowtime]

this quote is from BasariStudios and it echoes my confusion succinctly.

Although it is not that important just yet, I am not grokking the organization of the Kronos. And the manual is no help here. I wanted to simply get all the progs and combis into the K all at once to compare all presets. I remembered reading here that there were EX's that are not loaded at the factory. Upon investigation I found that some were and some weren't. And upon trying to load, for instance, the Vintage Keyboards EX, I got confused. I loaded them (apparently) but where did they get loaded into?

Are there any "big picture" grokkers out there who can shed some light. I can't be the only person scratching my head. This should be in the Quick Start "how your Kronos is organized".

[Gargamel314]

I don't have a Kronos, so hopefully someone can answer better than I can. You can load EXs4 "Vintage Keyboards" which will load all the vintage keyboards samples into the Kronos's memory. It doesn't load any programs, just the multisamples. Then, you need to load up (i would assume from the included DVD or somewhere on the hard drive) the PCG for that expansion. These are the programs and combis that use these samples.

If you later decide not to load EXs4, the programs will stay in their locations, but if you play them they will make no sound until you load EXs4.

The Kronos has so many factory presets already, that there isn't much space to load this PCG file. You can only load it into Bank U-G unless you want to replace a factory preset bank. This is kinda a big issue with the Kronos, the limited blank user space, because now you have to either pick out your favorite programs from here and overwrite presets, or leave them in bank U-G until you load in another PCG file.

For a "big picture," check out the "Voice Name List" and it will show you where everything is, what programs are in what banks, and what banks use which EXi. Also, it will show you what multisamples make up each EXs, and how everything is allocated on the system. You will have to figure out how to organize new programs that you decide to load up, or if you just want to deal with multiple PCG files for different program loadouts. It's pretty amazing that Korg gave us so many presets, but you naturally want to load EVERYTHING you possibly can at once... there just isn't room to do it.

Just remember, if there are EXi's or EXs's that you really don't use, you can unload them and overwrite the bank. If you realize that even thought the MS20EX and PolySixEx are pretty great but you probably won't ever use them for anything, you can just overwrite the bank with your Vintage Keyboards programs with them until the day comes that you need a MS20EX sound. Nothing's permanent, because you can always load up the factory presets.

[michelkeijzers]

See the forum post about which combis use which programs, maybe that helps a bit.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=62656

What I want to make in the future too, is to make a list of programs to HD1 waveforms, and a list of combis to waveforms. This will take some time tough. And maybe what's even more intersting, a list of waveforms to programs/combis. Something like (just random data):

EX1-0000 Waveform used by programs IA3, IA6, ... combis IA8, ...
EX1-0001 ...
...
EX9-1000

[ChristianRock]

I guess you can't have everything...

In my Alesis Fusion I can have unlimited programs (presets), mixes (combis) and songs - as many as my hard drive can take... I also don't understand why they had to limit the number of programs and combis in the Kronos. They should have left dozens of empty banks that people could either write to or load those EXs to...

[sani]

I guess you can't have everything...

In my Alesis Fusion I can have unlimited programs (presets), mixes (combis) and songs - as many as my hard drive can take...

I believe we had this discussion already somewhere. Alesis gave you something at a very big expense, that is, every single sound had to be loaded into the sample ram when recalled (unless it was already there). From all possible and impossible solution, this is by far the worst. When I'm switching programs live on the stage, the last thing I want is to wait unless the keyboard loads some samples from the HD. It may work in the studio, but certainly not on stage.

[sparkie]

this quote is from BasariStudios and it echoes my confusion succinctly.

Although it is not that important just yet, I am not grokking the organization of the Kronos. And the manual is no help here. I wanted to simply get all the progs and combis into the K all at once to compare all presets. I remembered reading here that there were EX's that are not loaded at the factory. Upon investigation I found that some were and some weren't. And upon trying to load, for instance, the Vintage Keyboards EX, I got confused. I loaded them (apparently) but where did they get loaded into?

Are there any "big picture" grokkers out there who can shed some light. I can't be the only person scratching my head. This should be in the Quick Start "how your Kronos is organized".

Nowtime, dont feel bad as I dont understand it either... really confusing as to where stuff is loaded.. whether a combi will be affected..what is replaced or overwritten by loading this or any of the other freebies they put on the SSD drive.. Its all about memory swapping since the Kronos is already maxed with no additional RAM to do anything with. Fun!

[phattbuzz]

I think the first thing I'll do (after playing with Kronos for a week or so NONSTOP) will be to go through all the Combis and see what I don't need. I personally don't have any need for the hiphop type patches, so those go automatically. Once I've done that, I can look through the Programs and do the same. Hopefully I can find a computer program to cross reference what Combis I have left use the Programs.
Then I'll start creating my own programs & combis & setlists.

[ChristianRock]

I guess you can't have everything...

In my Alesis Fusion I can have unlimited programs (presets), mixes (combis) and songs - as many as my hard drive can take...

I believe we had this discussion already somewhere. Alesis gave you something at a very big expense, that is, every single sound had to be loaded into the sample ram when recalled (unless it was already there). From all possible and impossible solution, this is by far the worst. When I'm switching programs live on the stage, the last thing I want is to wait unless the keyboard loads some samples from the HD. It may work in the studio, but certainly not on stage.

All it requires is some planning and full memory on the board... and not going crazy with the samples. After all we're talking about a 2005 design with the Fusion, not a 2011 design. So of course it's not as good as the Kronos, no question about it.

Still, you can't tell me that Korg couldn't have given us a couple extra banks in this day and age.

[BasariStudios]

Lets not confuse the guy anymore, lets be real and straight...he asked a
particular question, which i did too:
What is Factory and what is Extra on the Kronos?
Can someone from Korg's personel answer this please???

M3 got released, later on was the XPanded and we Exactly knew what we are
getting with the ''EXTRA''...now, with the Kronos, why did Korg decide to call
EXTRA the EXs inside if actually they are part of the Factory?
Ok now, lets say i am wrong which i pray to god i am wrong...lets say we
unload the EXTRA EXs...what the hell is then left inside the Kronos???
Korg clear this out please? Cuz in my understanding of English EXTRA and
FACTORY are 2 completely different things. Since i was involved with Korg
people know how RIDICULOUS i get when a new Synth or OS comes out
and if it wasnt for my RIDICULUOUS behavior there was not gonna be few
OSs Updates or a 2.01 OS for PA800 in 2 weeks.
Why would someone decide to call something EXTRA but actually i am paying
for it...

WHY WOULD KORG ADVERTISE 9 SYNTH ENGINES OR 2 DIFFERENT ENTITIES
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME GIVES US ACCESS TO ONE?
ITS VERY SIMPLE, I WANT AN INITIALIZED BANK FOR EXi AND ONE FOR HD-1.
AND NO, I DONT WANNA ERASE ''FACTORY'' SOUNDS.

And please no Korg personel emailing me with nice words (since they
have the habit to do so) so i would stop bashing...THIS is not bashing, its
reality check and there is a lot of us frustrated ONES.
I know many people in here have answers such as:
1. Oh read this link
2. Eh HE explained a workaround here
3. Uh you could do this...
We just need a straight simple answer...ARE WE SCREWED OR NOT?

See the forum post about which combis use which programs, maybe that helps a bit.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=62656

This is ALL a waste of dear time for who organized it and for us to read it,
this wont solve anything...we aare not asking for workarounds.

I guess you can't have everything...

We dont ask for everything, we just wanna know WHAT we paid FOR.

And the way i understand it is:

There is no Factory or Extra in here, nothing, nada, zero...if you unload the
extras more then half of the stuff wont work properly, the Combinations too.
I dont know from what Agenda they decided to call FREE and EXTRA something
we paid over 3000$ for...people that have not bought the Kronos yet should consider this.

Thanks

[sparkie]

Lets not confuse the guy anymore, lets be real and straight...he asked a
particular question, which i did too:
What is Factory and what is Extra on the Kronos?
Can someone from Korg's personel answer this please???

M3 got released, later on was the XPanded and we Exactly knew what we are
getting with the ''EXTRA''...now, with the Kronos, why did Korg decide to call
EXTRA the EXs inside if actually they are part of the Factory?
Ok now, lets say i am wrong which i pray to god i am wrong...lets say we
unload the EXTRA EXs...what the hell is then left inside the Kronos???
Korg clear this out please? Cuz in my understanding of English EXTRA and
FACTORY are 2 completely different things. Since i was involved with Korg
people know how RIDICULOUS i get when a new Synth or OS comes out
and if it wasnt for my RIDICULUOUS behavior there was not gonna be few
OSs Updates or a 2.01 OS for PA800 in 2 weeks.
Why would someone decide to call something EXTRA but actually i am paying
for it...

WHY WOULD KORG ADVERTISE 9 SYNTH ENGINES OR 2 DIFFERENT ENTITIES
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME GIVES US ACCESS TO ONE?
ITS VERY SIMPLE, I WANT AN INITIALIZED BANK FOR EXi AND ONE FOR HD-1.
AND NO, I DONT WANNA ERASE ''FACTORY'' SOUNDS.

And please no Korg personel emailing me with nice words (since they
have the habit to do so) so i would stop bashing...THIS is not bashing, its
reality check and there is a lot of us frustrated ONES.
I know many people in here have answers such as:
1. Oh read this link
2. Eh HE explained a workaround here
3. Uh you could do this...
We just need a straight simple answer...ARE WE SCREWED OR NOT?

See the forum post about which combis use which programs, maybe that helps a bit.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=62656

This is ALL a waste of dear time for who organized it and for us to read it,
this wont solve anything...we aare not asking for workarounds.

I guess you can't have everything...

We dont ask for everything, we just wanna know WHAT we paid FOR.

And the way i understand it is:

There is no Factory or Extra in here, nothing, nada, zero...if you unload the
extras more then half of the stuff wont work properly, the Combinations too.
I dont know from what Agenda they decided to call FREE and EXTRA something
we paid over 3000$ for...people that have not bought the Kronos yet should consider this.

Thanks

YES I too want to know!! This is really frustrating trying to understand this... If this can or cant be expanded with more ram and banks.. If not.. thats BS!!

[ChristianRock]

Why do you feel screwed because they decided to call Factory banks "EX"?

Grow up!!!!

[sani]

All it requires is some planning and full memory on the board... and not going crazy with the samples. After all we're talking about a 2005 design with the Fusion, not a 2011 design. So of course it's not as good as the Kronos, no question about it.

Well, that's the point. On one side you're are talking about how the Fusion was almost unlimited, and on the other side it suddenly needs some planning and not going "crazy" (whatever that means) with the samples.
And I'm in no way comparing it to Kronos. IMHO the concept of Fusion is completely wrong for stage purposes because the time to load a new program/performance depends on the size of the used multisample(s) and whether it was loaded before or not.

Still, you can't tell me that Korg couldn't have given us a couple extra banks in this day and age.

There already are how many banks? 14? I didn't count them. You have about 2000 memory locations for programs. Kurzweil is the only other company giving you that much (or slightly more). I'm not trying to say that you are wrong with your request, I'm just trying to make a point. Nobody gives even near as much as Korg when it comes to memory locations (besides Kurzweil).
It's kinda difficult to please everybody.
On the M3 when it was released people complained about the small number of factory provided programs/combinations and the many empty banks. Now Korg filled them up and it is still not OK for some others.

[/quote]

[BasariStudios]

Why do you feel screwed because they decided to call Factory banks "EX"?

Grow up!!!!

Leave me alone...James...Pete?

[BasariStudios]

On the M3 when it was released people complained about the small number of factory provided programs/combinations and the many empty banks. Now Korg filled them up and it is still not OK for some others.

Wrong, thats just an assumption, what we want is USER, not stuck with Factory,
noone is complaining about full banks. If i give you Hot Soup in an 1/8 inch deep
plate would you be Happy with it?

[ChristianRock]

Why do you feel screwed because they decided to call Factory banks "EX"?

Grow up!!!!

Leave me alone...James...Pete?

No. You leave everybody else alone! You're trolling all over this forum. I'm sure a mod will have a word with you very soon. Your hissy fits are not amusing.