again - Pa1x vs. Pa500 vs. Pa800

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:27 am

Hi there,
I know that this question has been asked here probably more than enough, but still, I've got some questions which I can't find anywhere else.

I've got Korg Triton Extreme76 and I'm more (and more and more and ..) happy with it. Recently, I switched keyboards with my friend for a two weeks and got Tyros1 instead. And - I fall in love with arrangers

First, I was amazed by the CD-like experience and then I realized that I like my old Korg Extreme sound, because it's fun and every single patch will bring smile on your face. Tyros is awesome first night, then really good the next few days and they you realize that you're using same 4 instrument over and over again because there are not much of them and they're not so good.

So it's decided - I want Korg arranger. But which one?
Right now, I can have:
1. PA1X Pro for about 1050 Euro
2. Pa500 for about 800 Euro
3. Pa800 for about 1600 Euro

My first question is - does they sound at least as good as Triton Extreme, or I need Pa800 to get the good sound? Does PA1X sound as good as Extreme? And finally - and I heard both stories - does Pa500 really sounds like Pa800?

First, I need to decide If I want to spend that much money for Pa800. I really don't need vocal harmonizer and sampling. It will be cool to be able to save mp3 (I'm really not about playing one) - just save my own song. but for twice as much money as for Pa500? If Pa500 really sound the same - and that's why I need you to tell me

- there's no reason for me to get Pa800.

Let's asume that Pa500 and pa800 really sound the same - I also heard something about "chinese" quality. Light and wigly keybed, horrible touchscreen, noise, faulty buttons etc. Is this right?

because - and that's my final question - if the Pa500 sounds the same as Pa800 but it's cheapy, plastic and ... without aftertouch and .. Why not to buy PA1X Pro? I already bought Extreme76 because I knew that it sound better than some of the new instruments simply because it was Top Model of it's time. It is full metal with excelent keybed, 76 keys and huge power in effects. Isn't it wise rather to buy PA1X Pro than Pa500, because I will not reach to new 3.0 updates with DNC on Pa500 anyway, so it's better to have much more powerfull yet maybe with older audio engine of 1Xpro?

Please ... I'm stuck in this for about a month now and still don't know what to do. I did it once. I sell my TR76 and knew that I want new Korg - I was choosing between M50 and Extreme76 and I'm very happy with my choice.

What do you say? Pa500 or PA1X Pro? Or wait for new model? Or wait for new model because of the Pa800 price drop?

)

I'm stuck in Korg's Hell

Any opinion will help me. Thank and have a nice day,
Jan

PS: And I don't even mention that EC5 can't be used with Pa500

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:22 am

Hey Jan

It is hard to recommend the right keyboard for you but if these were my options I would be initially torn between the the PA1XPro and the PA800 (I would not consider the PA500).

I love the 76-note size and the action of the PA1XPro keybed, however the newer PA800 has the same sound engine as the M3 and new features.

The PA1Xpro has the same sound engine as the Triton.

"PA800 with 76 keys" (i.e. PA2Xpro which is what I currently have) would be my ultimate choice but that is not in your list.
From your list, I think I would go with the PA1Xpro - primary reasons for me would be:-

76-keys
better key action
sliders
stable OS 3.01
no speakers (I hate built-in speakers)
EC5 support - essential for me
(I would like the MP3 board in it!!! and the extra RAM)

The downside of the PA1Xpro is its weight (20kgs)

I hope this helps a bit

Pete

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:13 am

karmathanever wrote:Hey Jan

It is hard to recommend the right keyboard for you [...] (I would not consider the PA500).

I hope this helps a bit
Pete

Hi Pete and thank you very much!
Probably all of us here was in this situation so it's very very helpfull to hear those words.

Obviously, I'm oscilating between Pa800 and PA1X for reasons you mention, but when I forgot all reasons and just talk about the sound and price - why you would not consider the Pa500? They say that it's Pa800 without the features and Korg itself replied that it soound >exactly< the same as Pa800? - Obviously I find it suspicious. Do you have any reasons to kikc "cheack Pa800 sound" in form of Pa500 from the list?

Thank you,
Jan

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:49 am

Hi Jan

I must re-emphasize that these are just my opinions.
I would not consider the PA500 because I am obsessed with the arranger technology and would regret not having the extra features. I find the EC5 worth its weight in gold and would not be without one. The PA500 is a great entry level version of the PA range but not for me. As I said above, I really don't like keyboard with speakers.

The PA1Xpro's extra sliders and keys make it a great performance keyboard. If you can get the "Elite" version of the PA1Xpro then you will have the MP3 board built in - a great asset. The extra RAM is ok if you are wanting to use samples - the CD drive is a waste of time and money.

You might think that you don't need the "features" but trust me, once you get your hands on one of these arrangers you just want everything (and more) that it can do.

I have owned the Korg i3 Korg i30 Korg PA1Xpro and now the Korg PA2Xpro.

You say you like the 76-key "size" and you want great sounds and options. From your list I would definitely go for the PA1Xpro. However, if you can squeeze the extra $$ then the PA2Xpro is the best of all worlds.

Good luck - please don't hesitate to ask if you need any more details but please remember that these are my feelings and preferences about the Korg arrangers.

Cheers

Pete

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:08 am

karmathanever wrote:Hi Jan
I must re-emphasize that these are just my opinions.
Pete

Surely, and I was asking for subjective replies - everything is subjective in the matter of taste and it will just helped me to sort my thought out.
You're absolutely right. The PA1X Pro is my favourite in this list - but there is my last question.
I'm very very obsessed about sound. Not technolgy, but sound (which comes in hands most of the time). If you forget about everything - keys, ec5, build quality, sample, expansions, sliders, speakers. Close your eyes. Will I regret to pass the Pa500 because of it's sound?

That's my last concern. From my experience, I will say without hearing them that cheap entry level keyboard like Pa500 even that they're saying it sound the same will NEVER sound like pro top version of one step older technology. My many years old Extreme76 still sounds much better than most of the today's synths.

So just about the sounds - is sonicaly Pa500 better than PA1X Pro? I'm more about Jazz sounds. Saxophones, Brass (I love them on Tyros1) and strings (or full orchestra). I'm not concern about guitars and accordeons.

As far as I can understand, I can't install the latest Pa800 system to Pa500, so I will not even get the DNC on it...

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:53 am

I just find out that PA1X has 62 polyphony.
Wow, I didn't expect that. My Extreme76 has got 128 but 64+64 divided between banks and I can easily get out of voices in some heavy piano parts with layered stings ;( I can't imagine how you can play with accompaniment with such few voices .. ;(

EDIT: Don't get me wrong - I never had an arranger before so I don't know. Will it "melt" in the accompaniment so you will not here voice canceling? I rember back on ProteusFX with 32 note polyphony that sometimes in even decent composition I start running out of voices very quickly.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:54 am

Hey Jan

I never ran out of polyphony on my PA1Xpro but if you are into playing along with heavily loaded MIDI files etc then I guess you could run out.

So just about the sounds - is sonically Pa500 better than PA1X Pro? I'm more about Jazz sounds. Saxophones, Brass (I love them on Tyros1) and strings (or full orchestra).

If you look back through the forums (PA1XPro I think) you will see that a number of owners preferred the PA1XPro sound quality to the PA800.
Personally, I loved the brass and saxes on the PA1Xpro - I even copied some of my PA1Xpro SOUND set-ups to my PA2Xpro.

If you go for the PA1Xpro, I do not think you will be at all disappointed - they are Triton sounds.
As I said earlier, if it was my decision I would go for the PA1Xpro - big solid beast, no speakers, very performance friendly, lots of physical controls (sliders etc...) and fantastic sounds.
If you go for the PA1Xpro, I would be happy to share all my sounds, styles etc with you.
I think I still have several MP3 demos of the PA1Xpro sounds and styles - if I can find them, would you like a copy?

Cheers

Pete

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:58 am

karmathanever wrote: If you look back through the forums (PA1XPro I think) you will see that a number of owners preferred the PA1XPro sound quality to the PA800.
Personally, I loved the brass and saxes on the PA1Xpro - I even copied some of my PA1Xpro SOUND set-ups to my PA2Xpro.

That's very interesting.
Yesterday, I first decided to go -cheap and safe- with Pa500 and later at the evening, I was almost sure to spend some extra and get Pa800 instead. I even checked eBuy for used PA2X price

karmathanever wrote: I think I still have several MP3 demos of the PA1Xpro sounds and styles - if I can find them, would you like a copy?

If it's possible to put them somewhere for me I'll be more than happy Pete! Truth is, that for some reasons, it's very hard to get ANYTHING about Pa1X. For example officially, it almost doesn't exist anymore. Korg wipe out everything about it - just in archives of UK Korg there is the original page but the links to audio demos are dead.

If you google, you will find miriads of Turkish, Balkan and Orient examples - so, so far, my favourite "decider" media for Pa1x Pro is this poor quality but totally awesome (for me) Pa1x video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5zRNRh1bKI

Thank you very much Pete!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:05 am

Hi Jan

I'll sift out what I have and zip it up onto "Mediafire" share site for you to download - I'll send you a link as soon as i have done it.

Cheers

Pete

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:30 am

I just got an incredible offer for Pa500. Damn... I think I will go for it to test my ability to use an arranger and then after few months I will sell my Extreme76 along with this Pa500 and buy Pa3x Pro instead.

Still, I will love to hear your stuff, Pete, because it helps me to compare and make statements. I still have time to change my mind and It's hard times and there's no cash to waste. Pa500 will be much easier to sell later on when I change change my mind

At least, I will compare it to Extreme76

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:05 pm

Hi Jan

Here's the link to a zip file containing the 3 main built-in demonstrations from my PA1Xpro (Songs, Sounds, Styles) - it's about 46MB
http://www.mediafire.com/file/sm2e074rs ... oDemos.zip

I have others I have made etc.. if you need more. I have also sampled and created real Hammond B3 sounds.

All the best

Pete

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:14 pm

Pete, it's incredible - most of them are the same as for Pa500/Pa800 on korgpa.com - the official demos.

Does it means that the next line simply inherit most of the styles? I would expect new sound if it's using "new technology" and instead of HI it's EDS.

But anyway, I don't know how you record it and if you didn't master it somehow, but if the official demos are also raw output from the machine, I found yours 2 times better sounding than Pa500 and even Pa800 .. It deep and punchy and still there is plenty of room in the mix for all those sounds. The Pa500 and Pa800 demos from the website sounds in comparison to this like from the phone (mostly Pa500, which now seems almost monophonic

My Pa500 will arrive at Monday (Tuesday) so I will report how it sounds >to me< in real world.

Anyway, you will not believe what happen. The guy who wants to sell me his PA1X Pro, when I wrote him that I'm sorry but I bought Pa500 he offered me that he will give me his Pa1XPro in exchange of my Pa500 (with some money added to it - of course). So I will have few weeks to try Pa500 and If I will not be satisfied, I can get PA1XPro instead of it

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:37 am

Hi Jan

Yes, those are the official demos and they were recorded "as is" with no mastering. A lot of owners stated that the "raw" sound of the PA1Xpro was better than the PA2XPro/PA800/PA500/PA588 range. I agree. However the PA2Xpro has EQ controls built-in so you can change the sound on the keyboard. I needed to increase the low frequency EQ on my PA2Xpro before I was totally happy with it.

Yes, many of the styles are inherited from the PA1XPro - some of them enhanced with extra sounds.

It is excellent that you still have the PA1Xpro choice.

Good luck with it all. Keep in touch

Pete

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:07 am

....and have you listened to these demos on youtube - I have only just found them - don't bother with clip #1 but the rest seem pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIynZ4Mh ... u_in_order
Cheers

Pete

Jabba-san · Post by **Jabba-san** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:04 am

My Pa500 just arrived. I'm at work so I just briefly check the chasi, screen and keys, but first tought - oh my god it's ugly plastic toy.
Few hour before at the morning I played on my Extreme76, so when I touch the keys, it was awful

It's like baby thin plastic toy - and sharp

the black keys are almost sharp at the edges.

But I sort of expect that - I go cheap just to get the sound. I will wrote more after I try it later at home.

btw: I bought Bespeco AGT additional "floor" for my Bespeco stand and it turns out that I've got so old bespeco X stand model that it doesn't fit - the tube is smaller .. aaaarg

I'm standing between buying the new X-Stand or brush the sides of the extenders to fit mine old one