Samples - loading and saving problem

[Vinci5]

Can someone please explain the correct and simplest way to save and load sampledata associated with programs/combis.

Here is my problem:

1.
First I create a Multisample and name it. After sampling something and naming it, I turn the Multisample into a program.
Then I do my programediting and save the program.
Before turning of the M3 I use the Save sampling data command.
Then I turn off the M3.

2.
I turn on the M3, load the ksc file and everything is ok. Samples play back as supposed to within the program I created.

3. Problem: If I then try to load another ksc file containing other samples for a previously created program, the first program no longer plays back its samples, however the newly loaded program plays its samples correctly.

It's as if only the most recently loaded ksc file is "working". And yes, I choose "Append" so I don't loose what's currently in memory.
Do I really have to save and load my programs as well?
Or do I have to name things in a specific way?

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong. I have been through every page of the manual without finding a clear answer.

I like the M3 a lot. It's a breeze editing and creating combis is fast, however the way that the M3 handles files and directories makes me feel like we're back in 1984.

Thank you.

Christian

[kid_nepro_2002]

This probably has to do with the multi sample numbers. When you create a program using samples each sample is given a number. 0001, 0002 and so on. Your second KCS file probably has the same numbers as the first KCS file so when you load in the second file your going over the sample created in the first file.

The solution would be to pick up on your second file where the numbers in the first one left off. If your first KSC file has sample numbers (for example) 0001-0005 then when you create the second KSC file then start your samples with 0006.

I have not tried this since I've only been working with one KSC file at this point, but it seems like that would be the best way to have everything living inside the memory at the same time. Let me know if that works for you,

Good Luck!

Proton
www.kidnepro.com

[Vinci5]

Thanks a lot, I see your point. But there must be an automatic way of doing this....
Surely Korg can't expect everyone to remember or check the last multisample number they assigned a sample to.

What do you say Korg?
I'm programming my brains out and I start touring in 2 weeks, so please help.

[kid_nepro_2002]

Yes, I agree. You might want to also consider to just keep adding on to your first KSC file to keep things simple. That's what I did when I was putting together Proto Rock. I now have over 90 samples in the file. About 50 megs of data which loads in less then two minutes.

Simply load in your first KSC file and add your new samples picking up on the next available sample number. Then save the edited file save your PCG data and your done!

Proton

[Vinci5]

Ok. So I save my PCG data to a USB stick. (I assume t

Picture this please:
Then at rehearsal after loading PCG data, I change a few levels and stuff in a combi and write the combi to internal memory. Then what? The next time I load the PCG data, the changes I made in the combi will be overwritten? This means that everytime I make the slightest adjustment, I have too save the PCG data again? So simply writing the combi to internal memory is not enough... AAAAArrrrgh. I'm confused!!

[kid_nepro_2002]

It's just a matter of keeping things organized....at least in your head!

You do not have to save your PCG data each time you make any changes, as long as you have written the program/combi to the internal memory. Although it's a good idea to save PCG data frequently and I try to do that before turning everything off for the night. The PCG data stays in the memory. Then all you have to do is load in the KCS file when booting up and your ready to roll.

Proton

[Vinci5]

Check out pages 407-408 of the Parameter Guide.

"Load PCG (RAM) and samples"

I think I'm on to something here....

What do you think?

[Spotnik]

Yes, I agree. You might want to also consider to just keep adding on to your first KSC file to keep things simple. That's what I did when I was putting together Proto Rock. I now have over 90 samples in the file. About 50 megs of data which loads in less then two minutes.

Simply load in your first KSC file and add your new samples picking up on the next available sample number. Then save the edited file save your PCG data and your done!

Proton

Hope you don't mind my chiming in here 2 years later!! I think you're on to a problem I've just been wrestiling with myself.

So, Proton, what you're saying basically is that you can just store ALL your samples in one big KSC file, but create several different programs from it?

I thought a KSC had to match a particular PCG File. At least that's what made sense to me after reading your tutorial. I've been multisampling a bunch of HammondDave's vintage keyboard sounds, but everytime I load the KSC for a particular program the previous one disappears!

BTW, Proton, your blog post on how to create multisamples saved me a lot of hassle! It was the reason I decided to buy the M3--it made sense to me without even having the display in front of me. Now if I can just figure out how the file system works!

[kid_nepro_2002]

Hope you don't mind my chiming in here 2 years later!! I think you're on to a problem I've just been wrestiling with myself.

No problemo! Glad to help.

So, Proton, what you're saying basically is that you can just store ALL your samples in one big KSC file, but create several different programs from it?

That's right.

I thought a KSC had to match a particular PCG File. At least that's what made sense to me after reading your tutorial. I've been multisampling a bunch of HammondDave's vintage keyboard sounds, but everytime I load the KSC for a particular program the previous one disappears!

That's because of the sample number thing that I mentioned above.

I've been doing some experimenting since writing that post. I've also since purchased the 256k RAM expansion. I originally thought that you may be able to load multiple KSC files by using the "append" function when loading instead of the "clear" function, but that turns out NOT to be the case. It seems that the only way you can load more then one KSC at a time is to set up the KSC files as I mentioned above - where KSC file #2 sample number picks up where the numbers in the first one left off.

I think the append function is basically there to be able to load multiple KEP files as well as a single KSC file in the memory at the same time. I've been able to do that. I'm pretty sure that's the case, but I could be wrong about it. I just have a feeling that there might be another way. If someone at Korg wants to chime in and clear this up once and for all that would be great!

BTW, Proton, your blog post on how to create multisamples saved me a lot of hassle! It was the reason I decided to buy the M3--it made sense to me without even having the display in front of me. Now if I can just figure out how the file system works!

Good to hear it's doing it's job!

[Spotnik]

Okay, now I see how this works, and think this will actually result in a more manageable system--except for one thing: as I continue to append to my KSC, by the time you get to about 40 or 50 slots full of samples, it looks like there's going to be an awful lot of scrolling through page after page just to get to the next sample! Too bad you can't edit the program to reindex the slot references. Then you could just do smaller batches, combine the samples into the larger KSC file later, and then just redirect the slot slot references in the PCG file to their new location in the KSC. Maybe there is a way, but for now I think I can live with the current workflow.

Thanks again.

[Spotnik]

Well, okay--upon further experimentation I see it doesn't quite work that way either. I was envisioning a process where I could start a KSC file under a certain name and then just keep adding on to it and re-saving it over time. However, if I try to save a KSC file with appended data, I get the message "File Exists" with no option to overwrite.

So now I'm stumped for a workflow option Would it be correct to say that you pretty much have to load everything up at once, save the KSC file and live with it?


UPDATE: I now have a PCG/KSC pair working just the way I wanted. And here's another point of clarification that might help someone--when you execute the "Save MS to Program" it is NOT quite the same as saving PCG data to media. I kept doing this over and over again--saving a separate PCG file for each multisample that I saved! Instead, I just loaded up the nine samples I needed for each organ voice (36 in all), created, and saved each multisample to its own program slot, and THEN saved the whole set as one KSC and PCG pair. This whole time I was thinking that each slot in the user bank needed a separate PCG file!

I did not attempt this over several sessions, however, as I wanted to avoid having KSCs with variant names on my media (since you cannot just overwrite the original file) and I'm also not sure about the relationship between the progams living in each bank slot and the KSC file--do they just reference sample slot numbers, regardless of the name of the KSC file the multisamples load from?