Another freakish Question....

BruceL · Post by **BruceL** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:24 am

Knowing how all Tritons are OS PCG compatible, is it then feasible to install Triton Studio's OS inside a Triton Classic....that way a TC (Triton Classic) user could record midi track solo/mute scenes (automate SYSEX) in sequencer mode...???...long live the silvery beast.

:verycool::verycool::verycool:

***Sorry! ONLY approval replies to this question are welcome.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:45 am

BruceL · Post by **BruceL** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:22 pm

McHale wrote:no.

and, how would yuno it will not work........have you ever personally tried it.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:40 pm

its not like a computer. the hardware is usually quite different. its like a watch or calculator - the software has been specially written for THAT hardware platform.

also,
updater files usually have a Device (product) ID at the start that the keyboard checks, or MIDI/USB firmware updates usually check the Device ID too.

IF it didn't have any checking mechanism, it would:
a. be a very poor programming decision
b. most likely render your Triton useless and you wouldn't be able to repair it without replacing the program flash/ROM.

The PCGs are compatible because the keyboard (the operating system - The OS) reads them as programs. as all of the tritons have the same synthesis engine, then it knows what all the parameters are and so can reproduce the sound, having effectively the same DSP code.
But the operating system is usually in the form of low-level instructions that go straight to the chip to tell it how to operate.
Just the same as a .exe (OS update) isn't the same as a .doc (PCG file)

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:06 pm

BruceL wrote:
McHale wrote:no.
and, how would yuno it will not work........have you ever personally tried it.

Let me clarify then.

I have torn my Triton Pro apart enough to know the thing in my sleep. I also have the service manual.

I have opened several Triton Studios and Triton Extremes apart as well. They have different boards in them.

*BUT* to satisfy your "how do you know" comment...

The OS itself has a checksum. Merely changing a byte in a file for the OS will fail the checksum and the Triton won't load it. The OS for the Triton Extreme, Studio, LE, whatever have different checksums and the OS files are different as well. You would have to essentially replace every board in your classic to load the Studio or Extreme OS.

Is that enough?

BruceL · Post by **BruceL** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:09 am

Spare me the negative replies fellas...

................begging you, pretty please? (smile)

Allright!

allow me to clarify things just a bit as well...TC (Triton Classic) complete physical transformation into TS (Triton Studio) is not what Im looking to achieve, I too presume that it would be very dumb of KORG engineers to recklessly provide TC users a GRATIS option to turn their TC into TS boards....well, one could always pray & hope that they were indeed stupid (lol).....let me pray instead that they never read this site nor open this thread.

:lol: (kiddin').....all I want is a sequencer upgrade similar to the one found on the TS capable of responding/recording/sending SYSEX track mutes & solos....and I know it's doable...so, are yu guys with me...???...

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:25 am

If you want new features, buy a new synth. I've done enough hacking on their Triton OS to know it's not possible. But if you want to spend time trying or just fantasizing publicly about it, have at it. I'm done wasting my time on this thread...

-Mc

BruceL · Post by **BruceL** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:45 pm

McHale wrote:If you want new features, buy a new synth. I've done enough hacking on their Triton OS to know it's not possible. But if you want to spend time trying or just fantasizing publicly about it, have at it. I'm done wasting my time on this thread...

-Mc

Sorry! you feel this way, McHale......I dunno why you being so negative & against improving the Triton sequencer obvious to me you are clueless to what’s being discussed---this thread has NOTHING to do with wanting newer gear since 20yr. old sequencing equipments software technology like the ones found on Alesis MMT-8, Kawai Q80, or earlier Roland MC-series sequencers, Yamaha V50 products to name a few all had these features onboard capable of reading/writing/sending SYSEX and, unlike the Triton’s one-individual track these older sequencers did “multiple track” mutes/solos on the fly providing the user the flexibility to improvise/freestyle during a live performance so you see! what you said make absolutely no sense that someone would be fantasizing (gear lust) after a $1,000+ highly priced equipment when those same features are cheaply made available in gear selling for under $50 bucks....so,.....

***Yucan keep being negative saying what I ask is impossible & I will keep saying the opposite (sorry!)...how do I know it’s doable simple! cause it’s been done before with Triton Classic OS upgrade 2.53 if Im not mistaken where KORG designers/programmers copied the “swing quantize feature” from the TS (Triton Studio) over to TC...the same can be done with track mutes/solo & SYSEX.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:41 pm

But KORG have access to their original source code, and they know what the code does. They can adjust that and compile it to machine code which is what mainly constitutes the update file.

so, assuming all we have access to is the update file or the OS itself, thats machine code. very few programmers are able to write machine code, and they would have to be familiar with whatever processor the triton uses and that processor's particular instruction set. And then they would have to make sense of the existing code... nearly impossible when you consider what machine/assembly code boils down to: move this bit, add, subtract, write this address... its not pretty to look at.

anyway, from this you can see that the only one who is realistically going to do it is Korg themselves, and we haven't seen them updating the triton line for some time.

I might point out that I myself have experience in programming - i'm not just making this up...

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:36 pm

BruceL wrote: ***Yucan keep being negative saying what I ask is impossible & I will keep saying the opposite (sorry!)...how do I know it’s doable simple! cause it’s been done before with Triton Classic OS upgrade 2.53 if Im not mistaken where KORG designers/programmers copied the “swing quantize feature” from the TS (Triton Studio) over to TC...the same can be done with track mutes/solo & SYSEX.

OS 2.53 was released almost 5 years ago, when the Tritons where recent gear. Is logical Korg released upgrades for their boards in that timeframe. BTW, who said they "copied" that new functionaly from OS to OS and they don't developed it completely from scratch, but for the Classic?

Today, althought very widely used everywhere, Triton's are old technology (Classic is almost 10 years old). Korg have better things to do than upgrade software for old gear, so I'm trying to say that, althought technically possible, I don't think Korg will dedicate time to that upgrade, and they are the ONLY ones who can do it, since they own the OS source code. So stop dreaming.

Or maybe... pray so they read this thread, and some rogue programmer might feel your pain and take the time to tweak the OS. But pray hard, really hard

Cheers

BruceL · Post by **BruceL** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:03 am

X-Trade wrote:anyway, from this you can see that the only one who is realistically going to do it is Korg themselves...

X-Trade wrote:I might point out that I myself have experience in programming - i'm not just making this up...

and, this my friend is what's wrong with the world today...fully intelligent/capable good people as yourself sits on their corn syrup bubble arse do nothing expecting the Chinese & the Japs to do for them.

BruceL · Post by **BruceL** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:05 am

mocando wrote:...I'm trying to say that, althought technically possible, I don't think Korg will dedicate time to that upgrade...

Another NEGATIVE poster.

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:51 am

Hi, BruceL

a "NEGATIVE" poster would be shooting you down, or insulting you. These people are just respectfully and intelligently explaining reality to you. If I were you I would be looking for alternatives to your problem, such as accomplishing the same effect using CC#7 events to reduce track volume to zero, or something like that... but telling off the people on this forum won't get you want you want.

Post by **mikemolloyuk** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:34 am

BruceL wrote:Knowing how all Tritons are OS PCG compatible, is it then feasible to install Triton Studio's OS inside a Triton Classic....

Please don't Install the TS OS on any other product other than what it is intended for.

Mike
Korg UK Support

kanthos · Post by **kanthos** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:59 pm

BruceL wrote:
X-Trade wrote:anyway, from this you can see that the only one who is realistically going to do it is Korg themselves...

X-Trade wrote:I might point out that I myself have experience in programming - i'm not just making this up...

and, this my friend is what's wrong with the world today...fully intelligent/capable good people as yourself sits on their corn syrup bubble arse do nothing expecting the Chinese & the Japs to do for them.

First off, the racism is *not* appreciated.

Secondly, think of it this way. How much does it cost to buy a used Triton Studio (or, for that matter, a Triton Extreme with MOSS)? Under $2k US (I had a shot at buying a Triton Extreme without MOSS for around $850 USD that fell through; add another $450-$600 for MOSS). How much does a decent programmer get paid? I happen to be one with around 5 years of experience, and I make over $30 US an hour. Taking a more strenuous job, I could easily make a fair bit more than that. With a standard 40-hour work week, I can make enough to pay for a Triton Extreme in about 67 hours - a week and a half.

How long would it take to write a new OS for a Triton model? There's absolutely no way it could be done in anywhere near that amount of time.

Investing the time to do something on an older keyboard when newer keyboards in the same family (i.e. PCGs are fully upwards-compatible) would be better is a total waste of time. If you're so concerned about having a better OS in your Triton Classic, why don't you go commission someone to write you one? Oh, you don't have that kind of money? You expected people to upgrade your old keyboard for free?

You, as a poster, don't seem to be more than a whiner who's looking for someone to validate your opinion and calling anyone who does not a 'negative poster'. No one is denying that writing a custom OS *can* be done, but everyone is saying that given the cost, it's a waste of time. An intelligent poster would listen to those responses and give up on their pipe dream. You, on the other hand...

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