Post NAMM Blues

MrT-Man · Post by **MrT-Man** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:15 am

Mike Conway wrote:This NAMM thread should be about how, years later, NAMM offerings still don't compete with this beast!! I'm going to do a little sucking up... Thanks, Dan, Jerry, Stephen and Korg! Thanks for going as far as replacing entire units for some people. Thanks for standing behind your work. Keep it coming!

Exactly. The Oasys was introduced 4 years ago, & (while others may or may not feel differently, & while I do wish there were more updates, etc.) it's still the synth I would choose to buy if I were making my buying decision today. That's a huge amount of longevity in a tech-based industry.

ix · Post by ix » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:31 pm

hi guys , i dont own an oasys ' yet ' but its being looked at but i would like to comment on this as it feels like people are avoiding the issues......

I read the posts on how we should buy hardware based on what it can do now and not buy gear with 'dreams ' of what it ' may ' do after development as this is dangerous ( i agree) but i cant help but think the whole policy of advertising a machine as an open system and developed for 'years ' to come is dangerous and uses the oppsite psychology to sell it ? wasnt the idealogy used to sell OAsy the oppsoite from what dan has said here ?

You know advertising ? its that technique used to sell people or mislead people into psychologically thinking a certain way and relative to this buying a certain object.Advertising was very well carried out in the 2nd world war by hitler and today misleads many into buying what they dont need.......i think the danger here is the rather ambitious advertising which kind of underpinned the whole korg promo of oasys [ as machine to be developed for years to come] its very suggestive isnt it ? you know suggests you can buy this machine and for years to come it will be expanded on ? i am wondering just why their are so many owners upset ? i am wondering if the people from korg reading this really do think there is no smoke without fire ?and the owners are wrong......

i can hear korg saying ' the customer mustnt dictate to the business ' and thats fine until..........until you sell open ended future developed goods and indicate this or suggest this is one reason to invest.The pricing of this system without a doubt was based on that , its uttoer rubbish to say this machine was priced on hardware alone , what was factored in was the fact people wont buy more hardware / plastic , only updates , its blatantly odvious i feel , its so far beyond other products in price and its priced relative to upgradability , thats very odvious and nothing korg says can change that reality . . .only a fool would believe theres $10000 worth of hardware here and features , its priced for its ' potential ' so....

Did you guys at korg maybe consider this ? that your approach in selling this unit was based on making the potential buyer ' think ' via advertising that what $10000 gets you is a synth you wont have to upgrade as hardware ? i am enticed by the oasys for its features now myself ! but i am also drawn to invest in this much money on the basis i might be able to stop selling plastic enclosures every 3 years and keep the enclosure and simple update the software ( which is what oasys kind of promises ?)

I'm a little concerned as a potential buyer of korgs attitude i have to say . it seems sketchy and somehow like theres a sense of denial here.The whole focus on open and 'for years ' to come is very dangerous as an advertising and promotional tool and its equally dangerous for company members to then kind of sweep aside all criticism as though 100's were wrong feeling this and they are somehow right ?

I feel a great arrogance from korg , a very great arrogance and i dont own the machine , but i did feel the same from roland regards varios and the vsynth xt which i bought into.I dont even read about new roland products now - i skip the page , i feel these companies just want to keep selling new hardware instead of updates due to their business being about selling plastic enclosures more than musical instruments.i felt the oasys likE the neko ) might be an indication the world of musical instruments is getting into the ideaology that we cant keep creating plastic objects for ebay and landfill forever , that what we had here was the future.

With the greatest respect for korg and this machine i feel they need to maybe consider their position , i think you will find peoples problems and attitudes about the oasys and korgs realtionship with the owners isnt unfounded and cant be swept away with statements of how you should buy a synth 'for the now ' when its odvious korg were selling this on the premise its a synth which will be ' now ' forever or for years to come......

can anyone see whats been said here ? that now the future / open / years to come stuff was no reason to buy or never should be a reason to buy hardware - correct UNLESS the company sell the gear on this premise !!!! ? ?

i find that a little wrong , the customer is always right ? well ok not always but you guys at korg - why are people upset >?have you done nothing wrong ? ( in suggestive advertising and not fully respecting your relationship to the people that pay your wages and make your business money )

......we live in the age of communication but it seems to be the big problem here.

Sell a synth and open for 'years to come ' and then fail to update it relative to lesser products and you run the risk of serious future problems , thats the law of nature , theres no smoke without fire and its to easy to sweep aside these arguements with rather arrogant remarks about what people shouldnt buy a product for , you advertised this as open and for years to come and then its reamrks like ' you should never by a product for what it ' may do ' when your selling oasys partly with ' promises ' of what it may do............very intersting........i think your message is telling in particular dan , no offence by very much indicates something.......that you people cant admit youve made mistake here and somehow feel elevated enough to totally denounce ' future expansions as a reason to buy whilst selling oasys on the basis of this potential.......thats i think dangerous.

i think korg are on very thin ice ......

ix · Post by ix » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:41 pm

i should expand really and ask dan in particular

whats was or is Korgs intention or suggestion ? When saying 'for years to come ' and do you agree you were or are selling this machine on ' the premise ' that its unique advantage ' and selling point to somedegree )is in it being open for years to come / developed ?

I get your point about ' buy hardware for what it is now ' but dont understand why you say that when your advertising the oasys on ground of what its ' may be ' in the future partly or with the opposite ideology ?

Advertising as you have suggests the opposite of what your saying dan ?

peter m. mahr · Post by **peter m. mahr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:22 pm

one suggestion ... with respect to your opinion, i would prefer if you remove this line from your posting

ix wrote:Advertising was very well carried out in the 2nd world war by hitler and today misleads many into buying what they dont need......

as this part of history does not have anything to do with "advertising".

thanks

peter

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:08 pm

ix wrote:i should expand really and ask dan in particular

whats was or is Korgs intention or suggestion ? When saying 'for years to come ' and do you agree you were or are selling this machine on ' the premise ' that its unique advantage ' and selling point to somedegree )is in it being open for years to come / developed ?

I get your point about ' buy hardware for what it is now ' but dont understand why you say that when your advertising the oasys on ground of what its ' may be ' in the future partly or with the opposite ideology ?

Advertising as you have suggests the opposite of what your saying dan ?

I'm in R&D - not advertising, marketing, sales, etc. So, I don't advertise. My own position has been pretty constant, I believe: buy for what it does today. When I talk about the OASYS, I describe its PCM oscillator interpolation, VA oscillator anti-aliasing, filter performance, modulation speed/smoothness, unusual synthesis capabilities, etc. - things it does today.

Best regards,

Dan

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:41 pm

Well, I bought the Oasys for what it could do on the day I bought it. And be assured I'm still very happy with this decision.

I just want to point out, that one of the things the Oasys could do at that time was (and is) being OPEN for future developments - that is: more open than other workstations IMHO.

thekeymaster · Post by **thekeymaster** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:06 pm

I have to hand it to Dan I think you handle yourself brilliantly on these forums..... applause to you sir.

As for my take on things, I did buy the Oasys on what it was offering back in 2005, I thought it was fantastic then and still sit in awe of it now but i cannot lie in saying that one of its main selling points was its Open architecture and the way it was sold to say it would be the future for development for years to come.

In some ways Korg have delivered,it is years on and we have had updates and add on's as promised but there a few things which I thought may have been more frequent......more EXs sample libraries and to have seen at least one EXf ?????........ I still think it should have made it to v2.0 by now too but we are a greedy lot aren't we.

Lack of news at NAMM always makes us frustrated.....

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:25 pm

Charlie,

Me too. It's still the best beast going.

ix,

For someone who's not an owner, what's your motivation for ragging on Korg? Your degree of "indignation" over something you have no stake in sounds more like trolling than anything else.

Peter,

You're absolutely right to call him on spewing irrelevant garbage that is meant to be inflammatory.

Daz · Post by **Daz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:36 pm

thekeymaster wrote:I have to hand it to Dan I think you handle yourself brilliantly on these forums..... applause to you sir.

Well said. Applause and appreciation from me too.

curvebender · Post by **curvebender** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:07 pm

Daz wrote:
thekeymaster wrote:I have to hand it to Dan I think you handle yourself brilliantly on these forums..... applause to you sir.
Well said. Applause and appreciation from me too.

You mean he's good at not answering THE question without sounding rude or impolite?.. Yeah, he's the best!!

Kidding aside, Dan's presence and insight into Korg and Oasys is nothing less than great, and these forums are so lucky to have regular communication from the manufacturer of our beloved instruments. Dan, Jerry, Ski (long time no see..) and Stephen really go out of their ways to help us.

To ix:

If you mention Hitler in a positive remark again, I'm going to pay the owners of this forum good money to give me your IP-adress, and then I'll track you down and play you ALL the presets from the Roland Fantom G thru a pair of Yamaha NS-10:s. And let me tell you, you don't want that.

Synergy · Post by **Synergy** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:10 pm

I’d say that any part of the history certainly has to do with the advertising.
In fact, the advertising was very well carried out by the Jew against Christ Jesus as a false prophet 2000 years ago.
The advertising was carried out by British against Irish that the Irish were rude, subpar intelligent, conniving, condescending, arrogant, shrewd, slick sly, etc.
Today’s economical and political woes were caused by the conniving men misleading many into buying things that they don’t need.
We see advertising every day. Others even advertise yours that you don’t approve of in order that your words may be manipulated against yours.
However, as it is written, for those who live by the swords will perish by the swords, and for those who live by the law will die by the law.
Ironically, the advertising sometimes turns out to be detrimental for their own cause especially for those cowards who try to gang up on an individual because they trust only in their number of chariots and men.

Daz · Post by **Daz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:37 pm

curvebender wrote:
Daz wrote:
thekeymaster wrote:I have to hand it to Dan I think you handle yourself brilliantly on these forums..... applause to you sir.
Well said. Applause and appreciation from me too.
You mean he's good at not answering THE question without sounding rude or impolite?.. Yeah, he's the best!!

LOL, I am glad I am not the one having to do it

He's answering all the questions he is in a position to answer and in doing so reading/digiesting a lot of our comments. Over a weekend, and a public holiday here in the US too.

Synergy · Post by **Synergy** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:28 pm

curvebender wrote:To ix:
If you mention Hitler in a positive remark again, I'm going to pay the owners of this forum good money to give me your IP-adress, and then I'll track you down and play you ALL the presets from the Roland Fantom G thru a pair of Yamaha NS-10:s. And let me tell you, you don't want that.

I and many others saw that ix has mentioned Hitler not in a positive way but rather negatively to those who promoted AND bought Oasys' advertisement, leading us to believe that whoever bought the Korg's advertisement has to do with the historical aspect of those who bought Hitler's advertisement, hence Peter's response.

Likewise, your mentioning of Ip-address to address your motive coincides with that of advertising Hitler used, in which only goes to reveal your knee jerk response in regards to the subject of the matter. That is, to use the reverse psychology to ellicit your own agenda. Who knows, maybe you two are bed fellows.

As it is written, HE will give sights for those who can't but take away the sights from those who can.

nytcrawlr · Post by **nytcrawlr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:27 pm

I bought the Oasys new in September after seeing what this puppy could do, and it absolutely blew me away. I was just recently contemplating selling it because it is such a beast and I felt a bit lost, but as soon as I sat down at that monster I dismissed any thought I had of "downgrading" and will be keeping it. That manual is huge, and I'm finally taking the time to go through it and starting to REALLY see what it can do.

It's incredibly in-depth in every department, and I definitely hope that more updates see the light of the day on this system, but even if not, this thing is STILL a monster, and nothing I saw so far at NAMM '09 makes me second guess my investment (though I will say, I AM picking up that Roland AX synth this summer, that's just freakin' fun).

So, as a relatively new owner, I am happy with my purchase and very impressed with the stories I've read regarding KORG support for the system as far as replacement units and such go. I hope more things trickle out for the system as time goes on, but regardless, this instrument will remain relevant for a long time to come (I may never wrap my head completely around MOD-7, but I'm having a ball trying to).

Ultimate Dj · Post by **Ultimate Dj** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:18 am

danatkorg wrote:
Synthoid wrote:
danatkorg wrote:In the USA, the minimum advertised price (MAP) is $8.5k for the 88, and $7.5k for the 76.
Actually, the 76-key has been available for under $6000 for awhile now. I was quoted $5100 last week from a local dealer.
MAP = Minimum Advertised Price. Selling prices (including individual quoted prices) may well be different.

- Dan

at guitar center they have a 76key thats selling for $3,999.

puravida
DJ