PA3X Comments & Problems?

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:29 pm

I'm considering purchasing the PA 3X but haven't seen many comments for or against, or that many 3rd party reviews, but I haven't reviewed all the posts here yet. I have been a long time Korg user, but things went sour when they unceremoniously dumped those of us who are Oasys owners when they rolled out Kronos.

My intended use would be primarily for quicker song creation than putting everything together separately with my Oasys / T1 / Wavestation, etc.

Having seen first hand that Korg does whatever it wants without regard to the customers, the questions that come to mind are:

1) Since the 3X debuted in 2011 and is now going on 3 years old, how has the feature set been from a user's standpoint? Did it live up to your expectations? Are there gaping holes in it's operations? Have there been many fixes for problems?

2) Are there any rumors of a new flagship arranger?

3) Do you think it was worth the money when you bought it new, in hindsight now?

4) What other arranger products would you buy now instead?

5) How has the reliability been?

6) I'm aghast at the extremely small size of memory. It seems like it's way out of line given current memory prices. I realize it's almost 3 years old and that memory prices have come down since then, but they managed to put 2 gig in the Kronos and cut the purchase price in half from the Oasys, didn't they?

Thanks for any help,

Ken

once burned, twice shy

miden · Post by **miden** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:17 pm

Important point to remember -

Korg USA (Kronos, Krome, Kross) is a TOTALLY different company to Korg Italy (PA series)

They have different design values and needs, and a completely different market. So what USA does will have no bearing on what Italy does and vice-versa, so it is pointless to highlight things like the RAM difference for example. Not trying to be negative, just trying to save you from

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:41 am

Hi Ken

My answers for what they are worth:-

1. This keyboard does everything (and more) that is in the manuals. Exceeded my expectations. I find nothing that causes me any problems. Korg seem to have fixed the bugs.

2. No. Nothing hinted or announced

3. Every cent

4. IMHO there are no other professional arranger products to compare it with. If Audya worked, was supported and updated then it might get closer. Tyros is nice but with very poor and lacking OS features especially for performing and recording plus it is grossly overpriced.

5. My PA3X - no problems at all so far

So, IMHO Korg monopolize the pro arranger market. If you want specifics in terms of Tyros vs PA3X differences, please let me know - I can PM you (I've owned both)

Cheers

Pete

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:39 pm

miden,

Thanks for the information, I did not know that Italy did the PA series arrangers.

In the case of ram, I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that only installing 256 MB in today's gigabyte world is a function of being designed & presumably built in Italy.

Admittedly unfamiliar with arrangers in general, but tech savvy with a BS in computer science, and a fairly long background in electronics, it would seem that any digital equipment could benefit from more ram & rom.

Could you explain what I'm missing, please?

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:53 pm

Karmathanever,

Thanks for the reply. it's very helpful to know of your experience. I recall that a few years ago (before PA 3x) there seemed to be a fair amount of discontent on this forum, which is why I didn't buy one then.

Would you say a few words about what features you find really helpful or like enormously?

One other thing, as a user, can you tell me if my concept of getting one to construct songs more quickly makes sense or do you see little or no benefit from that standpoint?

Please forgive my lack of knowledge about arrangers. My thought is that having the ability to have a "canned" rhythm section, fills, and style choices, would allow one to focus on melody and lyrics and tighten up the remainder after getting those polished parts down.

Ken

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:55 pm

Hi Ken

My thought is that having the ability to have a "canned" rhythm section, fills, and style choices, would allow one to focus on melody and lyrics and tighten up the remainder after getting those polished parts down.

Absolutely!!!

Things I particularly like about my PA3X-76
Keybed feel
Touch screen
OS design
Vocal harmonizer is awesome
quality styles
Style structure design
DNC sound technology
MAXX Audio features
Ease of operation for live performance and recording
Well designed and comprehensive control surface (sliders/buttons etc...)
Solid physical build (20kgs!!)
Sampling capabilities

One other thing, as a user, can you tell me if my concept of getting one to construct songs more quickly makes sense or do you see little or no benefit from that standpoint?

Yes this makes perfect sense - as you say, you can find a style (groove) that is close enough to the new song and use that as a base to work from, focusing on melodies etc... The flexibility in Style editing or even just changing some style sounds can open up new ideas.
You can record everything as MP3 (even include your vocals and harmonies) or MIDI for further editing.

I think an arranger is an excellent choice.
You could however consider the Kronos and utilize its "KARMA" facilities - it is NOT an arranger as such (no INTROs/ENDINGs/ FILLs etc) but extremely flexible and configurable and great for composing. I am lucky - I own both - but they complement each other as opposed to overlap.
Kronos is too involved to explain in a forum thread - you would need to fully research it at least on http://www.karma-labs.com, in these forums and YouTube.
Kronos-61 and Kronos-73 is a cheaper solution.
There are many but here are 2 good demos:-
http://youtu.be/ex0qDLBHCds
http://youtu.be/qIi3aurtoW4

My first recommendation is still to go for the PA3X

Hope this helps

Pete

Dreamer · Post by **Dreamer** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:00 pm

Hi,

let me chip in.
I have recently upgraded from a PA2X-Pro to a PA3X-Pro (76 keys), following also the advice from Karmathanever, and I am really glad that I did!
The first thing I noticed is that the keybed is much improved and has a fantastic feel, very smooth. I rate it the best 76 notes keybed I have ever tried, together with the Roland G-70 (that I still own) and much better than the PA2X-Pro.
In the past I have had also a Tyros 1 and 2, a Yamaha 9000 pro and a Ketron SD1 and can say that the PA3X is the best arranger I have ever owned.
Playing an arranger keyboard in a sense is like playing with a band where all the members have a certain kind of personality and I love the PA3X maybe because the "members" inside it (and especially the drummer and the bass player) are very good at playing the music I happen to like.
This means that since I switched to the PA3X I have re-discovered the pleasure of playing the same songs I used to play before, but with a different twist.
So I cannot but recommend the PA3X to everybody, unless you are into soundtracks or classical music, in which case you might want to have a look at the Tyros 4 or even the new Tyros 5, that will be presented in two weeks time (November 11 2013).
I live in Italy and here there are rumors of a new Korg TOTL arranger to be released in April, maybe at the Frankfurt Messe; they say that it will make extensive use of audio styles (a la Audya). Of course, these are just rumors but the thing makes sense, considering the release date of the PA3X.
Finally, addressing the memory issue, some people say that the relatively small quantity of RAM depends on the internal architecture of the keyboard, that prevents it from addressing a larger quantity of memory. It's likely that the new Korg flagship will solve this problem, but are you willing to wait?

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:01 pm

Thanks for such a rapid & well done reply!

You may have missed it in my signature block, but I do have an Oasys 88 key with Karma and run the Karma Oasys software which doubles the Karma capabilities.

I realize there are a few differences between Kronos & Oasys, like sample streaming capability, 2 additional engines, more ram, etc., but they are essentially the same, with Kronos being based on Oasys. I see no reason to purchase a Kronos at this time. If Oasys breakdown and is not repairable that might be a time to get one. I am, after all, a starving poor artist.

It's great to see someone as excited as you are about this unit. It gives confidence that I won't be missing the mark on a good addition to my musical instrument collection.

When you say that you can record to MP3 does that mean it saves to an MP3 file internally and then it can be exported to an MP3/CD burner? Would I assume correctly that there is an internal hard drive that it is saved to since the amount of ram is quite small?

miden · Post by **miden** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:07 pm

kenackr wrote:miden,

Thanks for the information, I did not know that Italy did the PA series arrangers.

In the case of ram, I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that only installing 256 MB in today's gigabyte world is a function of being designed & presumably built in Italy.

Admittedly unfamiliar with arrangers in general, but tech savvy with a BS in computer science, and a fairly long background in electronics, it would seem that any digital equipment could benefit from more ram & rom.

Could you explain what I'm missing, please?

Because the design team do not think more than that is necessary for the type of keyboad they are producing!

I never said I "agreed" with it!!! In fact there are MANY disgruntled owners over this very thing.Just saying how it is.

Not to mention the ridiculous price of the EXB 256 ram card!

IMO I reckon ALL modern keyboards should have the capability for multiple gigs of RAM and the ability to load in VSTi's as well.

It is simply a matter of intent on the part of the manufacturer and (mostly) planned obsolescence by them for future earnings!

miden · Post by **miden** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:11 pm

kenackr wrote:..............
When you say that you can record to MP3 does that mean it saves to an MP3 file internally and then it can be exported to an MP3/CD burner? Would I assume correctly that there is an internal hard drive that it is saved to since the amount of ram is quite small?

That is exactly what it does. Although it is restricted to a max rate of 256kb and no VBR. The PA3 has the internal HDD, but it can also be replaced by an SSD if you so desire.

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:17 pm

miden,

You are quite right about the dead horse. It is My dead horse, however, and it's actually a ZOMBIE horse. It re-materializes on Halloween's and every time I consider purchasing another Korg Product.

So Cheers, :3dbeer:

to a dead horse that one can beat without getting in trouble with the law!

miden · Post by **miden** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:25 pm

kenackr wrote:miden,

You are quite right about the dead horse. It is My dead horse, however, and it's actually a ZOMBIE horse. It re-materializes on Halloween's and every time I consider purchasing another Korg Product.

So Cheers, to a dead horse that one can beat without getting in trouble with the law!

I do think you took it the wrong way kenackr, it was not to criticise, rather to advise that on these forums the issue has been done to death! And to more perhaps focus on the positive aspects as highlighted by Dreamer and Pete.

No future in bemoaning what never will be

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:38 pm

Dreamer,

Thanks for your seconding of Karmathanever's take on the unit.

Am I willing to wait? It is unfortunate that my master, HERR WALLET, says that waiting it shall be. If I had a wife, I could blame it on her, but alas, HERR WALLET, is the only master I have other than Mr. Woo-D.