...or should I be looking at something else. Of course I know about conventional looper pedals, and software solutions like Ableton Live. But I want to stay away from using a laptop in my situation, so I am looking for hardware. It would seem that what I am looking for is pretty straight forward.....but I am having a hell of a time finding the right equipment to purchase.
I want a looper, that acts exactly as the KPRO....BUT, with longer loop times! The beauty of the KPRO is that is does sound on sound looping, and it syncs well to an external midi clock, and its all real time for live performance. But, at slower tempos (say 90 to 100 BPM), its just way too short, limited to only 4 bars loop time. If not for that limitation, the KPRO would be perfect.
The KP3 has slightly better sample times....allowing for 8 bars at those slower tempos......but NO sound on sound looping (without re-sampling, which has its own workflow problems).
So my question here is......what other product can do what I am looking for?.... 1. Sound on Sound looping. 2. Midi sync to external clock that actually works decently. 3. Real time performance friendly (ie...can go in and out of record mode on the fly and instantly loops at end of recording). 4. longer sample times!!!
I looked at an SP 404...but it does not seem to have the real time sampling features for live looping. I know Ableton does all this....but need HARDWARE!!!! Does an MPC-1000 fulfill this function? Microsampler? Is there some other unit I have not thought of?
I have tried a number of sampling workstations, but most do not have the real time performance features.....ie: does not allow you to go in and out of record mode without stopping playback, or does not loop instantly for live performance, or does not do sound on sound looping.
Here is some of what I have tried so far: KPRO, KP3, Roland RC-50 (unstable midi sync), Looperlative LP-1 (horrible midi sync!), Roland Fantom G, Korg M3, and more. All of these miss the mark.....but KPRO is CLOSE!
What kills me is.....if real time midi synced performance sound on sound looping can be done so easily on the KPRO (and to some extent on the KP3), then I cannot imagine its not been better implemented on something else (read: more sampling time). Or am I just wrong!
Thanks for any feedback!
Ron
Is KP3/KPRO the only/best product for live sync looping.....
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I am aware of the 2880...but I have read mixed reviews as far as midi sync. All in all, I believe its less of a "performance sampler", and more of a guitar looper pedal. I like how you can set the loop length on the KPRO/KP3 to a distinct measure count (in exact sync with the incoming clock), and it hits its loop point and automatically begins looping right in sync. My experience with most looper pedals, you have to set the end point of the loop on the fly by tapping the pedal, and then it syncs up.....but because of this, there are a lot of sync issues. I have not owned or tried a 2880...so I cannot say for sure....but its definitely the case with the RC-50, LP-1, and M-9 (3 midi sync-able looper pedals).
I think you're expecting too much of a audio looper to sync to midi. The fundamental problem is due to long audio samples. Let's say you have a 30 second sample in the looper. What's it supposed to do if it 100 milliseconds out of sync with midi? Speed up? Slow down? Cut audio - and if so, what? Add dead space, and if so, where and when? Syncing the content of a sample isn't an easy job, even when doing it manually with a DAW where you can more easily identify which part of the signal is the beat - compared to other parts of the signal that have the same or higher level. Is the kick drum the beat? Is the snare? Is it the melody? What defines the beat in an unambiguous way?
Midi loopers don't have this problem. They are triggering small samples. Time is virtual. There's no difficulty to trigger the samples slightly faster or slower to keep in sync. Each sample plays without needing so slow or speed them up, as they can just play through and the sync can occur on triggering the next sampled bit.
Midi loopers don't have this problem. They are triggering small samples. Time is virtual. There's no difficulty to trigger the samples slightly faster or slower to keep in sync. Each sample plays without needing so slow or speed them up, as they can just play through and the sync can occur on triggering the next sampled bit.
Hey, great post xmiguy! I see your points...but i have some objections....
First....consider Ableton Live. It can do it, no problem. With much longer samples than a KPRO. Granted, I have not tested it with extra long samples (say, more than 16 bars) so your points may come into play there. And, I fully understand the processing power of a computer is much higher than a KPRO. But in concept....looping a 16 bar sample at 100BPM should work just the same way the KPRO does it for 4 bars, if the commensurate processing power and sample ram are available.
IMHO, the limiting factor on the KPRO is the amount of flash RAM....not the algorithms for sampling and syncing longer samples. As evidence of this....consider that the KP3 allows for twice the sample/loop time as the KPRO at 100 BPM. So it seems its possible....but the hardware limits the sample time.
There is a big difference between a looper pedal and a performance sampler/looper. Most of your points are spot on, IMO, as it relates to a looper pedal, and why reliable midi sync is so elusive in looper pedals. Everything is done on the fly...and as you say, where to put space, slow down, speed up, cut audio when syncing.....all of this is algorithm based, and thus far, with predominantly dodgy results in my experience.
However, with a performance based sampler, such as the KPRO, the loop length is pre-set prior to recording. No matter what, the KPRO knows exactly where to sync that sample.....both start and end points. What material is recorded within the sample is irrelevant. The sample is a fixed container for the audio....at firmly set start and end points. Triggering those samples is direct and immediate, with little algorithmic computation. (unless you are changing tempos on the fly....which is yet a whole other topic, and not the situation I am seeking to find in my original post).
While I totally understand that to get 30 sec plus sample lengths, all in perfect sync, requires much higher sample ram, and much higher processing power....and maybe beyond the reach of current hardware devices (though the LP-1, at $1500 USD, was supposed to have the power...but it fails miserably...IMO because its of the looper pedal variety, algorithmic, and not of the performance sampler variety). But I would like to hope that some other performance sampler hardware is out today that allows for more than 4 bars at 100bpm. The technology is there.....perhaps its the cost to benefit ratio that is off, to create the hardware that can handle the task?
or....again....am I missing something that is already out there......?????
First....consider Ableton Live. It can do it, no problem. With much longer samples than a KPRO. Granted, I have not tested it with extra long samples (say, more than 16 bars) so your points may come into play there. And, I fully understand the processing power of a computer is much higher than a KPRO. But in concept....looping a 16 bar sample at 100BPM should work just the same way the KPRO does it for 4 bars, if the commensurate processing power and sample ram are available.
IMHO, the limiting factor on the KPRO is the amount of flash RAM....not the algorithms for sampling and syncing longer samples. As evidence of this....consider that the KP3 allows for twice the sample/loop time as the KPRO at 100 BPM. So it seems its possible....but the hardware limits the sample time.
There is a big difference between a looper pedal and a performance sampler/looper. Most of your points are spot on, IMO, as it relates to a looper pedal, and why reliable midi sync is so elusive in looper pedals. Everything is done on the fly...and as you say, where to put space, slow down, speed up, cut audio when syncing.....all of this is algorithm based, and thus far, with predominantly dodgy results in my experience.
However, with a performance based sampler, such as the KPRO, the loop length is pre-set prior to recording. No matter what, the KPRO knows exactly where to sync that sample.....both start and end points. What material is recorded within the sample is irrelevant. The sample is a fixed container for the audio....at firmly set start and end points. Triggering those samples is direct and immediate, with little algorithmic computation. (unless you are changing tempos on the fly....which is yet a whole other topic, and not the situation I am seeking to find in my original post).
While I totally understand that to get 30 sec plus sample lengths, all in perfect sync, requires much higher sample ram, and much higher processing power....and maybe beyond the reach of current hardware devices (though the LP-1, at $1500 USD, was supposed to have the power...but it fails miserably...IMO because its of the looper pedal variety, algorithmic, and not of the performance sampler variety). But I would like to hope that some other performance sampler hardware is out today that allows for more than 4 bars at 100bpm. The technology is there.....perhaps its the cost to benefit ratio that is off, to create the hardware that can handle the task?
or....again....am I missing something that is already out there......?????
You bring up two separate issues, so I'll discuss them separately. The KoPro wasn't a ground-up design, where all the features such as sample time were open to the flexibility allowed when the designers could do anything they want within wider constraints. The KoPro is basically a recycled KP3. I wish they had done a full redesign, but for whatever business reasons, they didn't. The KP3 and KoPro don't play samples directly from flash, they play it from RAM that has been loaded from flash. Therefore, the RAM is the constraining factor to loop length, not flash size. They also could've had the KP3 play from flash, like the SP-404 does, but again, they didn't, so I think that design got carried over to the KoPro, for better or worse. If playing from flash, they could have much longer loops, just like the SP-404 can do.
They did add overdub looping to the KoPro, which I expect uses more RAM than the KP3 does, to buffer and mix the two samples in real-time.
With regard to the sync, the KP3 and KoPro do keep in sync, with themselves, across the four loops (when the samples are the same size). The problem is when 8 bars at 120 bpm is 16.008 seconds on them compared to 15.992 seconds on an external device, where both device think they played a 16 second sample but don't, due to small errors in the clock timing. These errors accumulate for each loop, and become significant very quickly over the length of a song. So the question remains? What to do with the difference in timing? Korg's answer was to not sync. The midi timing is only used to set the BPM. This was in keeping with the original design as a DJ effector, rather than a live audio looper designed to sync to midi. DJ's can cue music sources and should be able to sync them through the headphones to match whatever's playing. Given that design, that's how you have to treat the KP3 and KoPro - they're the master loopers and you sync to them.
I'm not sure if Live does it any differently. Set up a long loop of 30 seconds at 120 bpm, synced to an external device that's playing midi tracks, and see what happens when you change the device to 119 bpm while Live is in the middle of the sample. I'm interested to see your results. I would try it myself, but I'm away from my studio with my DAW at the moment.
I can tell you what my solution has been. I work within the limitations of the KoPro and KP3 when I'm using them. Otherwise, I stay in the domain of midi looping to keep in sync with midi devices.
There may be some new possibilities opening up with the iPad2 for midi and audio looping, and that might be an acceptable alternative vs. a laptop computer. I consider the iPad to work more like dedicated hardware when running an app, compared to laptop OS's. I already see that I'm going to be using iMS-20 instead of the EMX. Same goes for much of the gear I have, like the SP-404, MPC1K, etc. I'm already see a lot of this hardware becoming redundant with apps. I think I'd rather have 4 ipads than most of this dedicated hardware, at least that's the direction I'm headed.
They did add overdub looping to the KoPro, which I expect uses more RAM than the KP3 does, to buffer and mix the two samples in real-time.
With regard to the sync, the KP3 and KoPro do keep in sync, with themselves, across the four loops (when the samples are the same size). The problem is when 8 bars at 120 bpm is 16.008 seconds on them compared to 15.992 seconds on an external device, where both device think they played a 16 second sample but don't, due to small errors in the clock timing. These errors accumulate for each loop, and become significant very quickly over the length of a song. So the question remains? What to do with the difference in timing? Korg's answer was to not sync. The midi timing is only used to set the BPM. This was in keeping with the original design as a DJ effector, rather than a live audio looper designed to sync to midi. DJ's can cue music sources and should be able to sync them through the headphones to match whatever's playing. Given that design, that's how you have to treat the KP3 and KoPro - they're the master loopers and you sync to them.
I'm not sure if Live does it any differently. Set up a long loop of 30 seconds at 120 bpm, synced to an external device that's playing midi tracks, and see what happens when you change the device to 119 bpm while Live is in the middle of the sample. I'm interested to see your results. I would try it myself, but I'm away from my studio with my DAW at the moment.
I can tell you what my solution has been. I work within the limitations of the KoPro and KP3 when I'm using them. Otherwise, I stay in the domain of midi looping to keep in sync with midi devices.
There may be some new possibilities opening up with the iPad2 for midi and audio looping, and that might be an acceptable alternative vs. a laptop computer. I consider the iPad to work more like dedicated hardware when running an app, compared to laptop OS's. I already see that I'm going to be using iMS-20 instead of the EMX. Same goes for much of the gear I have, like the SP-404, MPC1K, etc. I'm already see a lot of this hardware becoming redundant with apps. I think I'd rather have 4 ipads than most of this dedicated hardware, at least that's the direction I'm headed.
Good dialog, xmiguy. I appreciate it!
Didn't know that about the KPRO/KP3 ram vs. flash ram. Still, its the ram that seems to limit the loop time on these devices. I am just surprised, considering how well the KPRO/KP3 work as loopers, that no other company has released a similar device with MORE ram, for longer loop times.
I also considered that the extra processing power that the KPRO must need to process sound-on-sound looping, is the likely reason why its loop times are shorter than the KP3, which appears to be the same hardware...but no sound-on-sound....thus longer loop times.
I wonder about how the KPRO/KP3 handles incoming midi clock. You say its only to set the BPM.....In my own thought process (absolutely an unqualified opinion) I would be surprised if it was just BPM. I would think that it follows the beat markers, and starts each loop cycle at the top of the measure relative to the loop length. That would seem to resolve much of the issues associated with sync......if each loop starts fresh on the clock at the top of the measure.....how out of sync can it get? If the loop runs slightly behind the clock (short), or extends beyond the clock (long), its all adjusted each 4 or 8 bars. That would just make so much sense.
When you consider how the KP3 can chop a loop, on the fly, into 8 segments....I can also see where each segment might be tied to a beat marker.
I have read quite a bit of complaints about the KPRO/KP3 midi sync drifting over time. I personally have not had those issues, to any significant degree. Yes, there is some drift....but not significant to adversely affect a typical performance. All in all...its the best midi sync from a looper I have experienced. Very easy, seamless, and on point. Hit a pad....play some stuff, and it just loops. It just works. Just too damn short loop length at slower tempos!
As I said...changing tempos mid song is always going to present problems. I personally will be happy with a good midi sync setup that is stable at a constant tempo. Even THAT is elusive with the current crop of loopers!
Regarding the iPad....I totally feel ya there. I love mine. The iMS-20, Garageband, iElectribe....all killer apps! And getting better. However, Midi sync is only JUST getting going, and still very primitive. That feature is critical for me in using the iPad as anything more than just a scratch pad or toy. There needs to be a better way of getting the clock signal in, rather than the camera connection kit. The Alesis I/O dock looks very promising when released. And the midi clock implementation needs to be more robust, and included on more apps! Are you aware of any audio looping apps for iPad yet? I wonder how the ram and processing power of the iPad compares to a KPRO/KP3? Do we really think it can out-perform these dedicated units for multi track sound on sound looping?
Didn't know that about the KPRO/KP3 ram vs. flash ram. Still, its the ram that seems to limit the loop time on these devices. I am just surprised, considering how well the KPRO/KP3 work as loopers, that no other company has released a similar device with MORE ram, for longer loop times.
I also considered that the extra processing power that the KPRO must need to process sound-on-sound looping, is the likely reason why its loop times are shorter than the KP3, which appears to be the same hardware...but no sound-on-sound....thus longer loop times.
I wonder about how the KPRO/KP3 handles incoming midi clock. You say its only to set the BPM.....In my own thought process (absolutely an unqualified opinion) I would be surprised if it was just BPM. I would think that it follows the beat markers, and starts each loop cycle at the top of the measure relative to the loop length. That would seem to resolve much of the issues associated with sync......if each loop starts fresh on the clock at the top of the measure.....how out of sync can it get? If the loop runs slightly behind the clock (short), or extends beyond the clock (long), its all adjusted each 4 or 8 bars. That would just make so much sense.
When you consider how the KP3 can chop a loop, on the fly, into 8 segments....I can also see where each segment might be tied to a beat marker.
I have read quite a bit of complaints about the KPRO/KP3 midi sync drifting over time. I personally have not had those issues, to any significant degree. Yes, there is some drift....but not significant to adversely affect a typical performance. All in all...its the best midi sync from a looper I have experienced. Very easy, seamless, and on point. Hit a pad....play some stuff, and it just loops. It just works. Just too damn short loop length at slower tempos!
As I said...changing tempos mid song is always going to present problems. I personally will be happy with a good midi sync setup that is stable at a constant tempo. Even THAT is elusive with the current crop of loopers!
Regarding the iPad....I totally feel ya there. I love mine. The iMS-20, Garageband, iElectribe....all killer apps! And getting better. However, Midi sync is only JUST getting going, and still very primitive. That feature is critical for me in using the iPad as anything more than just a scratch pad or toy. There needs to be a better way of getting the clock signal in, rather than the camera connection kit. The Alesis I/O dock looks very promising when released. And the midi clock implementation needs to be more robust, and included on more apps! Are you aware of any audio looping apps for iPad yet? I wonder how the ram and processing power of the iPad compares to a KPRO/KP3? Do we really think it can out-perform these dedicated units for multi track sound on sound looping?
Because of these same exact issues I kept looking for a better live looping device. The KO-Pro has been the best live looper for my guitar work hands down. I used to use a 2 DD-20's set to sound on sound looping...they were alright but the KO Pro is so much faster and easier to manage when it comes to live looping. In one box you get 4 live loopers that you can turn on and off when ever you need.RonF wrote:I am aware of the 2880...but I have read mixed reviews as far as midi sync. All in all, I believe its less of a "performance sampler", and more of a guitar looper pedal. I like how you can set the loop length on the KPRO/KP3 to a distinct measure count (in exact sync with the incoming clock), and it hits its loop point and automatically begins looping right in sync. My experience with most looper pedals, you have to set the end point of the loop on the fly by tapping the pedal, and then it syncs up.....but because of this, there are a lot of sync issues. I have not owned or tried a 2880...so I cannot say for sure....but its definitely the case with the RC-50, LP-1, and M-9 (3 midi sync-able looper pedals).
Korg PX5d
Korg Quad
Korg KP3
Korg DS-10
Korg PadKontrol
Korg K25
Korg Monotron
Korg Electribe 2
Korg Electribe Sampler 2
Roland GK-3A
Roland GI-20
Fishman Triple Play
BC Rich Guitar
My Music
Korg Quad
Korg KP3
Korg DS-10
Korg PadKontrol
Korg K25
Korg Monotron
Korg Electribe 2
Korg Electribe Sampler 2
Roland GK-3A
Roland GI-20
Fishman Triple Play
BC Rich Guitar
My Music
Exactly! Especially when slaved to midi clock! Only ONE single problem.....too short of loop times! This is where my original post started....there must be something similar that allows for just a bit more loop time, especially at slower tempos. I am not talking super long samples here.....just, say, 16 bars at 100 bpm.SMK wrote:The KO-Pro has been the best live looper for my guitar work hands down.
Otherwise the KPRO is just about perfect!
One more question about using KPRO for guitar looping, live.... How do you trigger record? Are you using some sort of midi pedal to enter into record mode?....or just pressing record with your hand, and then letting it loop around and playing your guitar during the second pass? Obviously while playing guitar your hands are in use on the instrument....and not there to press the bank button to start the record cycle. Just wondering if there any any creative midi solutions for triggering record? I know it takes a note on message to trigger a bank button.
Typically how a normal guitarist can make this work is by use of pedal controller...the behringer fcb1010. The pedals can be programed to be CC or Midi note. If you have both the KP3 and the KO-Pro then this would be a worth while investment.
Now for me I have developed better "hammer on and pull off" technique so I don't use a picking hand. I wanted a free hand to mess with Kaoss pads. I've been doing this since the KP2 when it first came out.
What I like about the KO-pro is that I can arm the channel by hitting record and then when ready I can quickly hit a track button (ABCD).
As far as length...I don't need anymore than what the KO Pro records...the loop time is enough for me.
Now for me I have developed better "hammer on and pull off" technique so I don't use a picking hand. I wanted a free hand to mess with Kaoss pads. I've been doing this since the KP2 when it first came out.
What I like about the KO-pro is that I can arm the channel by hitting record and then when ready I can quickly hit a track button (ABCD).
As far as length...I don't need anymore than what the KO Pro records...the loop time is enough for me.
Korg PX5d
Korg Quad
Korg KP3
Korg DS-10
Korg PadKontrol
Korg K25
Korg Monotron
Korg Electribe 2
Korg Electribe Sampler 2
Roland GK-3A
Roland GI-20
Fishman Triple Play
BC Rich Guitar
My Music
Korg Quad
Korg KP3
Korg DS-10
Korg PadKontrol
Korg K25
Korg Monotron
Korg Electribe 2
Korg Electribe Sampler 2
Roland GK-3A
Roland GI-20
Fishman Triple Play
BC Rich Guitar
My Music
By the way, there's a new looper that's fabulous: the TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch. It's a full feature vocal processor with looper built-in. It even automatically tracks the music of the audio or midi to control the vocal harmony. You can control it with the footswitch accessory or they have a Mic that has a button to control whatever you want.
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polyoptics
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I am a bit late to the party here....
IMHO, the 2880 is exactly what you need.
I love my Kpro, but as xmlguy has stated, its very fussy with midi sync, and will go very quickly out of sync with other gear, unless it is the master clock provider. Also, as you mentioned, the loop length is WAY too short imho.
The 2880 loops perfectly with all hardware I have ever synced it to (monomachine, electribe, kpro, Ipad). IMO, it is ROCK solid. When I want longer loops from the Kpro, I play out my Kpro onto the 2880. This is nice because you get longer length loops and because you free up the Kpro for more space.
What I like about recoding loops on the 2880:
You can set quantize for the loop record length to your incoming midi clock (quantize button on the front) . So what you get, without any work or frustration, is a loop length set in bars. You don't have to listen for the end of a section and hope your loop is not a fraction of a second off pace. How it works from a user stand point, (not a super tech guy) is that if you stop recording in the 3rd or 4th beat (or fraction of a beat) of a bar, it is automatically (quantizing) rounding up to the end of that bar instead. Which is FANTASTIC.
When my Kpro (or anything else) is the master, I just hit record on the 2880 (with quantize and midi sync set to 'on') and it is always perfect and never off.
With the 2880, all 4 loops + the 5th mixdown loop, must be the same length. This cannot be changed, and is IMO not an issue. Sometimes I set a 'new loop' to the length I want for my session (usually double the kpros max length) by recording silent audio into 1 loop. Now all loops are preset to the proper length and no matter when I decide to hit record, I always have the proper length set.
IMO, the 2880 is extremely easy to use and extremely reliable. My only gripe is that it only has faders to control each loops volume where I would also have loved to have had mute buttons. Not a big deal.
The 2880 is so perfect for this, I have 2 of them. It responds to midi Start/Stop messages, so you may want to set your Kpro to send those. Xmlguy helped me to set that up in the past and it is very easy.
If you do get one, get the foot controller, it makes recording easy, not just because you can use your foot, but because sometimes the 2880 only wants to record (in midi mode) when it gets a start message (not hard to get around) but for whatever reason, it will always record when you use the foot controller, no matter what.
Wow that was long... anyway... I feel like I was in your exact same place and the 2880 was my perfect solution. I've had it for 6 months or so and use it every other day at least and it never fails, ever. I only use hardware (+ipad) and so perfect midi sync is absolutely paramount for me, and in this regard, the 2880 is one bit of kit I have NEVER had to worry about.
Good luck.
IMHO, the 2880 is exactly what you need.
I love my Kpro, but as xmlguy has stated, its very fussy with midi sync, and will go very quickly out of sync with other gear, unless it is the master clock provider. Also, as you mentioned, the loop length is WAY too short imho.
The 2880 loops perfectly with all hardware I have ever synced it to (monomachine, electribe, kpro, Ipad). IMO, it is ROCK solid. When I want longer loops from the Kpro, I play out my Kpro onto the 2880. This is nice because you get longer length loops and because you free up the Kpro for more space.
What I like about recoding loops on the 2880:
You can set quantize for the loop record length to your incoming midi clock (quantize button on the front) . So what you get, without any work or frustration, is a loop length set in bars. You don't have to listen for the end of a section and hope your loop is not a fraction of a second off pace. How it works from a user stand point, (not a super tech guy) is that if you stop recording in the 3rd or 4th beat (or fraction of a beat) of a bar, it is automatically (quantizing) rounding up to the end of that bar instead. Which is FANTASTIC.
When my Kpro (or anything else) is the master, I just hit record on the 2880 (with quantize and midi sync set to 'on') and it is always perfect and never off.
With the 2880, all 4 loops + the 5th mixdown loop, must be the same length. This cannot be changed, and is IMO not an issue. Sometimes I set a 'new loop' to the length I want for my session (usually double the kpros max length) by recording silent audio into 1 loop. Now all loops are preset to the proper length and no matter when I decide to hit record, I always have the proper length set.
IMO, the 2880 is extremely easy to use and extremely reliable. My only gripe is that it only has faders to control each loops volume where I would also have loved to have had mute buttons. Not a big deal.
The 2880 is so perfect for this, I have 2 of them. It responds to midi Start/Stop messages, so you may want to set your Kpro to send those. Xmlguy helped me to set that up in the past and it is very easy.
If you do get one, get the foot controller, it makes recording easy, not just because you can use your foot, but because sometimes the 2880 only wants to record (in midi mode) when it gets a start message (not hard to get around) but for whatever reason, it will always record when you use the foot controller, no matter what.
Wow that was long... anyway... I feel like I was in your exact same place and the 2880 was my perfect solution. I've had it for 6 months or so and use it every other day at least and it never fails, ever. I only use hardware (+ipad) and so perfect midi sync is absolutely paramount for me, and in this regard, the 2880 is one bit of kit I have NEVER had to worry about.
Good luck.
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polyoptics
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polyoptics
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polyoptics
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:15 pm
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On side note, what I use the Kpro for mostly now is when I want to sit away from the studio setup and get some ideas/play around. The Kpro is portable and has a good set of features in one place so you don't need a lot of extra stuff. The Kpro + my Ipad means I can get a some neat stuff going without heaps of gear.
For my full set up, the Kpro doesn't get used much anymore, I am having trouble finding a fit for it. The 2880's are much better for loop recording (zero length issues and and zero midi problems), and the Ipad (IMHO) has a LOT more options and choices that can match the Kpro touch pad and go far beyond it.
I think once you get into full featured loopers and touch synths, you are actually a lot better off with a KP3 instead of a Kpro.
Just my personal opinion though of course.
For my full set up, the Kpro doesn't get used much anymore, I am having trouble finding a fit for it. The 2880's are much better for loop recording (zero length issues and and zero midi problems), and the Ipad (IMHO) has a LOT more options and choices that can match the Kpro touch pad and go far beyond it.
I think once you get into full featured loopers and touch synths, you are actually a lot better off with a KP3 instead of a Kpro.
Just my personal opinion though of course.
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polyoptics
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polyoptics
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polyoptics.....Thank you so much for the great review of the 2880. I am very intrigued by your comments, and now intend to fully explore the 2880. Funny, I have read several reviews online about this unit, and they sure are varying. Its been hard to get firm info or opinion, especially as it relates to midi sync. I take your words, based on the common ground we seem to share, as an excellent recommendation! Thank you again!
PS...I would very interested to know more about how you use your iPad in your set up. Are there particular Apps that stand out for you? How about midi and audio I/O for the iPad? So far, I am finding what I see on that issue a bit dodgy. Using the camera connection kit, without the ability to power the iPad simultaneously bothers me. The new Alesis I/O dock looks promising once its released. But what is good for power/midi/audio IO now??? And I don't see too many apps using midi sync yet. I also have been looking for looper apps...but not too sure what to make of what I see yet. Mostly see mono - vocal loopers. But perhaps you can enlighten me.
Overall.....my sincere appreciation for your comments!
Ron
PS...I would very interested to know more about how you use your iPad in your set up. Are there particular Apps that stand out for you? How about midi and audio I/O for the iPad? So far, I am finding what I see on that issue a bit dodgy. Using the camera connection kit, without the ability to power the iPad simultaneously bothers me. The new Alesis I/O dock looks promising once its released. But what is good for power/midi/audio IO now??? And I don't see too many apps using midi sync yet. I also have been looking for looper apps...but not too sure what to make of what I see yet. Mostly see mono - vocal loopers. But perhaps you can enlighten me.
Overall.....my sincere appreciation for your comments!
Ron