Hammond B3?

spinoria · Post by **spinoria** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:54 pm

I think there are some great features in the new Kronos but what do you think of the CX3?

It doesn't sound like a B3 with a good Leslie 122 or 147, at least not in the demos I've heard. I want the classic Hammond sound, not the sound of a Hammond-copy.

I really don't think this match the Nord Electro series. What do you think?

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:12 pm

Agreed: the Clavias have the best original Hammond B3 growl (though they needed to update their weak Leslie sounds in the Nord Stage 2)

But:
The CX3 plays in one league with the second-best B3 clones:
Hammond itself and Roland VK 8.

And it sounds far superior to the Kurzweil clone, and VERY MUCH superior to all the sampled B3s in the other worstations (Yamaha and Roland).

So what do you expect?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:36 pm

jimknopf wrote:And it sounds far superior to the Kurzweil clone

Disagreement here.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:40 pm

jimknopf wrote:Agreed: the Clavias have the best original Hammond B3 growl

I own or have owned Nord Electro 2 and 3, Hammond XK1, CX-3, and other clones, and real tonewheel Hammonds. Of the clonewheels, I think CX-3 is best. But different people look for different things, jazz players care about different things than rock players, etc. For rock/prog, the Nords can't get nearly as "meaty" as the CX3.

You can't judge a CX3 just from videos, or even playing one yourself in a showroom or one that belongs to a friend, because you end up just hearing it the way some other person liked it. I mean, if you like the CX3 the way you have heard it, fine; but if you don't, you can't assume that you can't make it much more to your liking. Unlike the Nord, the CX3 has a ton of customizable parameters that really alter the sound. The key one to me is "overtones" (not to be confused with "leakage" which it also has, as do other clones). That's the one that gave it the character that I associate with my old original tonewheel Hammond, which I can't get from any other clone. There are some other very useful tweakable parameters too. Nothing else can do a "screaming" hammond as well as the Korg, if that's the sound you're after. The XK1 also is very tweakable, but I was not able to get quite the same balls out of it.

There's a similar discussion going on in another forum. Some people think the CX3 is among the best clones out there, possibly the best; others consider it second rate. I think it really comes down to what sounds you're looking for (even different tonewheel Hammonds had different sonic characters), and also realizing that it can be extensively tweaked to hear more than just the sounds you may have heard.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:45 pm

Scott wrote:For rock/prog, the Nords can't get nearly as "meaty" as the CX3.

Heard a Nord C1 with swedish prog rock band Beardfish. It was meaty as hell!

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:48 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Scott wrote:For rock/prog, the Nords can't get nearly as "meaty" as the CX3.
Heard a Nord C1 with swedish prog rock band Beardfish. It was meaty as hell!

The C1 (same as Electro 3) is much meatier than the Electro 2 was... and is a very nice organ... but the CX3 still out-screams it.

mymusic42 · Post by **mymusic42** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:59 pm

If I can't get a good organ sound out of the CX3 engine, I am considering a Neo Ventillator, which is a leslie clone.

On the website, the ventillator sounds really good with a Hammond XK1. There are some CX3 demos with it that don't sound as good--but I am hoping they are just bad demos.

But hopefully some tweaking and customization of the built CX3 exi and its effects will give me a good hammond/leslie sound

http://music.ashbysolutions.com/neo.htm

synthskier · Post by **synthskier** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:27 pm

I'd say the demos are either all accurate (likely, else why post them at all?) or all not accurate (not likely). If you don't trust the demos with a CX3, then also don't trust the good-sounding ones with the XK1.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:45 pm

synthskier wrote:I'd say the demos are either all accurate (likely, else why post them at all?) or all not accurate (not likely). If you don't trust the demos with a CX3, then also don't trust the good-sounding ones with the XK1.

Since the CX3 and the XK1 both have many tweakable parameters, I think a good rule of thumb is: If you hear something you like out of one of them, you can assume you will probably like it in person; but if you hear something you do not like out of one of them, you cannot assume you won't like it in person.

A good sound proves something is capable good sound, but a bad sound does not prove that something is incapable of good sound.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:45 pm

If the modeled CX-3 in the KRONOS is as good as the recently discontinued CX-3 (which was also modeled), I'll be very happy. I'd put it on par with any of the clonewheels out there. I've had two (once when it first came out and once just before it was discontinued) and it was pretty good. It's WAY better than the XK-1 or XK-3 and I'd give the edge to the XK-3C.

mymusic42 · Post by **mymusic42** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:53 pm

I'd say the demos are either all accurate (likely, else why post them at all?) or all not accurate (not likely). If you don't trust the demos with a CX3, then also don't trust the good-sounding ones with the XK1.

The XK1 demo was a famous organist actually jamming with an XK1 and a ventillator. The CX3 demoes were much more mundane.

I don't think the vendor was trying be deceptive with the demoes. I just think they had a substantially better XK1 demo.

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:50 pm

CX-3 is excellent (and the organ sounds created by other engines, too, they are all very usable). The free EXi Expansion Sounds set from Korg contains sounds programmed by Mr. John Novello himself!

Please read his opinion about OASYS and B3 sounds.

P.S. Besides organs the mentioned soundset contains VERY good and usable vintage keyboards, basses and other sounds created with not HD-1 but AL-1, STR-1, CX-3. This addition contains not only Programs but also Combis. They both are loaded in USER-G banks by default, so be careful, don't overwrite what you may have already there. You can specify another target bank when loading the sounds.

mrteclas · Post by **mrteclas** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:47 am

Besides, one of the aspects of the Kronos in terms of flexibility, is that you can assign the CX3 to an individual out, and then to a real Leslie speaker. If you don't mind about giggin' with those 2 beasts, then you'll surely get a great screamin' organ.

GiantSonicRobot · Post by **GiantSonicRobot** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:07 am

mrteclas wrote:Besides, one of the aspects of the Kronos in terms of flexibility, is that you can assign the CX3 to an individual out, and then to a real Leslie speaker. If you don't mind about giggin' with those 2 beasts, then you'll surely get a great screamin' organ.

Using this technique, one could also use an external leslie simulator.
I recently purchased a 'Neo Ventilator' for use with my nord C2. That little box is quite impressive. Should also give the CX3 a nice boost.
Anyway, the quality of the internal leslie sim in the KRONOS will be among the first things I'll examine very carefully when I get hold of one.

mymusic42 · Post by **mymusic42** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:31 pm

i have the same plan. evaluate the built in leslie, then consider a ventilator (or maybe even a real leslie).

it's been a while since i played a CX3 organ (or the CX3 in an OASYS), but i seem to remember liking the sounds EXCEPT for when all the drawbars were pulled out and the built in leslie was on. i seem to remember thinking it didn't scream enough!

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