Expression pedal & MIDI

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:45 pm

I just got a new M-Audio expression/volume pedal and it works great on my M50. The only drawback is, since I have a Yamaha MIDI controller hooked up to the M50, the volume affects only the patches that plays ON the M50, but not the one played thru the controller.

Is there a way to make the pedal modify the volume of all patches regardless of the surface that is played on? I mean, all sounds are coming out of the M50 in the first time. I don't understand why it doesn't affect the sounds controlled from outside.

Thanks

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:24 am

BUMP... Anyone?

The weirdest thing is, I can turn up and down the volume of the whole setup with just the M50's volume slider. Now, why the expression pedal doesn't affect the midi controller? Is beyond me

kanthos · Post by **kanthos** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:14 am

Is the controller using the same MIDI channel as the M50? Probably not, unless you're using the M50 just as a sound unit.

The M50 probably only sends pedal messages on its global MIDI channel. To have the pedal sent on different channels, you'll either have to have the controller send CCs (or at least the pedal) on multiple channels, or you'll need some other way to send the pedal to multiple channels - a MIDI Solutions Router or Event Processor will do the trick as long as the Yamaha will power them; there's also an expression pedal processor that they have that might also do rechannelizing. You'd certainly be able to do this in a laptop with the right software.

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:51 pm

The controller is using channel 2, while the M50 is on the global 01 channel. Is any other way around without having to use any external gadget or a laptop? Maybe using filters or something?

kanthos · Post by **kanthos** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:49 pm

Possibly. You won't want the sustain pedal plugged into the M50, or else you're definitely limited to one channel at a time, so plug it into the Yamaha controller instead.

It's possible, although quite unlikely, that the Yamaha has some way of sending all controls, or at least pedals, on all MIDI channels. Look for this first, since it'll be easiest, but don't count on it.

On the Yamaha, how many keyboard zones can you set up at once? I'd bet that each zone will send CC messages from any controller, so you could, for example, set up two zones, one sending on channel 1 and one on channel 2. Since you seem to want the M50 keyboard to trigger sound on channel one only, and the Yamaha to trigger sound on channel 2 only, the zone using channel 1 on the Yamaha should be set to a key range that's not on the keyboard (C-1 to C-1, for example, using Korg's terminology; I don't know how Yamaha's differs).

If at some later point, you'll want to have pedals sent to more channels than the Yamaha has zones, you're out of luck without a laptop or other type of MIDI processor. Of course, if the Yamaha only has one zone and only sends on a single channel at once, you're also out of luck.

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:30 pm

Well, the Yamaha is a ver basic controller. I set up the zones IN the M50. I can set as many zones as I like. I'll look further in the manual if I can set zones in the Yamaha and assign different midi channels on those.

BTW, the Yamaha doesn't have any pedal ports, so I'm out of luck putting the expression pedal there.

Many thanks Kanthos.

kanthos · Post by **kanthos** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:47 pm

If the Yamaha has no pedal ports, you're completely out of luck. You might want to consider getting a different controller. Zones won't help you there, since they're not going to convert messages from elsewhere (plus, you're not sending any MIDI from the M50 to the Yamaha; why would you?)

I should also say that filters of any kind won't help you here. You want to *add* MIDI data (turn CC #64 messages on one channel into CC #64 messages on multiple/all 16 channels), not take it away.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:58 pm

I'd suggest getting a stereo volume pedal (if such a thing exists) - placing that in your output chain, just like adjusting the volume fader

you see the volume fader is an analog control and doesn't respond to any kind of midi message. as mentioned previously on the post, the M50 will only route pedal messages (just like any other input on the M50 - keys, knobs, etc) to the global channel.

furthermore (just a thought):
if you have set up your pedal to send cc7 (volume) messages, it will override the volume settings in the combi's mixer. obviously this isn't a problem if it is sending expression messages because that scales based on the volume setting.

alternatively, you could use a master limiter or something, and use the 'assignable pedal' - controlling the output volume of the master effect.

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:40 am

X-Trade wrote: alternatively, you could use a master limiter or something, and use the 'assignable pedal' - controlling the output volume of the master effect.

Looks like the last option is the one that might work. I'll look into it more deeply.

Thanks everyone.

Rio Ricardo · Post by **Rio Ricardo** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:53 pm

i use behringer midi foot control (FCB1010). with 10 preset prgrams, tht allows me to jump from combi/progrm 001 to another..

and 2 assignable expression pedals, so i can control all AMS on korg keyboard.. wah2, filter, pitch bend 12 note (like a whammy fx),portamento, fx modulations, amp ( attack,decay release,etc), master volume,sustain,,,

try it friend....

sory my english so bad,im indonesian..

kanthos · Post by **kanthos** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:22 pm

To use the FCB1010 properly, you'd have to send its MIDI output to both keyboards and, in the case of the M50, combine the MIDI input from the other keyboard with the FCB1010. Without a patch bay or something like a MIDI Solutions Thru and a MIDI Solutions Merger to do that, this wouldn't work the way he wants it anyway.

If you are going to use a stereo volume pedal, another option would be to get one with a single input and get something like the Behringer MX-400 mixer to combine outputs from both your keyboards. I use one to combine multiple outputs into a single input to send to a DI.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:55 am

+1 on the Behringer. I'm controlling my Triton and M50 with one. It made my live setup SO much more convenient. You have to have the UNO mod if you want to use the pedals for sustain and portamento though.

-Mc

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:30 am

The problem with my KX49 is that it doesn't have pedal jacks, so there is no way to hook an expression pedal but through midi.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:23 am

all midi and you can make the pedals or switches do anything you want basically...

-Mc

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:03 am

Looks like the solution. Now another question. I hook up my controller to the M50 using the MIDI out jack on the KX49 and the MIDI in jack on the M50. Since this foot controller has only one MIDI in and one MIDI out, I think I will need some kind of MIDI hub or something like that.

Am I right?