To Korg or not to Korg :)

For discussion relating to the Korg PA4X arranger

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bormo
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To Korg or not to Korg :)

Post by bormo »

Hi Folks,

I'll try to make a long story short.

I am a Worship Leader in a small Church and I use pretty old PSR S950 to create backing tracks for my singers. I never use it live, since I am also a sound guy :)

So my workflow is to play and record the intro, then left hand only, then outro, some times I use internal intros/outros

But we've used almost all PSR's styles and I am not so happy with the sound of the PSR.

Now I have a budget for a new toy, and trying to choose between:

1. Korg PA4X (or wait for the 5th)
2. Genos
3. Ketron SD90

Honestly, the form factor of Ketron is best for me, less space used, and I have a midi keyboard, but listening to demos I've found that I love more the Korg's sound. On another side, Ketron's rhythm section sounds not bad too.

Unfortunately not so much Ketron demos. I think there are a lot of people on the forums who have 2 or even 3 toys, what are your suggestions?

Thank you in advance
--bormo
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karmathanever
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Post by karmathanever »

1. Korg PA4X (or wait for the 5th)
2. Genos
3. Ketron SD90
It seems like it is "the sounds" you are after and in view of your limited requirement for an arranger, why not go for the PA700 or PA1000.
I think PA4X or Genos would be a huge overkill based on the tone of your post.

However, if you need 76 keys then that limits you to PA4X or Genos or adding a MIDI controller.
I can't comment on the SD90 but in terms of styles and sounds, Korg PA is your best option IMHO.

Let us know if you have any other (and specific) questions.

Cheers

Pete :D
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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kbrkr
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Re: To Korg or not to Korg :)

Post by kbrkr »

bormo wrote:Hi Folks,


But we've used almost all PSR's styles and I am not so happy with the sound of the PSR.


Thank you in advance
--bormo
Only you can decide on the form factor, but I will say having owned both, the Genos is probably a better choice for Worship service as it has better Freeplay styles, Gospel voices, Orchestral and Choir voices, and amazing Church Organs. The Korg is better suited for contemporary styles.
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Musicwithharry
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Post by Musicwithharry »

I would second the idea of getting the PA700. I have one and have used it almost daily since I first got it in September 2017 (hard to believe it has been 3 years already). I find new things out about it each time I play it.

It is a remarkable instrument and really is feature packed, even though it is considered the entry level of the PA Series. There is really nothing on it that I cannot do, or at least that I have not found yet.

I write MIDI files on it for a trio that I am putting together and have around 300 custom MIDI files for it, including original material, and it always sounds great.

I used it in church as well when I was the music director/musician for a local church and it always worked well. It really brought the 'praise and worship' up a few notches from what I experienced before in other arrangers (including the PA500 that I used to have).

If the stock pianos are not to your liking, there is a Yamaha C5 sample pack for free in this forum that you can load into it. I have, and it sounds great.

I used to use the PA700 in the classic rock nthat I am in, but changed to a more conventional synth setup (consisting of 6 synths) and really needed an 88-key unit for piano and controlling everything else. The PA700 stays at home and I program the MIDI files on it for the trio (as soon as the COVID thing lessens and we get to play out).

I also exclusively use the PA700 for the nursing home music ministry that I have. With COVID in place, I have not really played at a nursing home since March, but I was doing about 50 gigs a month using the PA700 and it never failed me. I almost always used the styles for the nursing homes, but also found myself playing different MIDI arrangements of songs as well. I have been dioin that ministry for over 11 years now amd the PA700 was a MAJOR step up from the arranger I was using before I got the PA700.

I also use it for my solo show (again, kind of on hold due to COVID) and play a combination of MIDI arrangements of my songs and MP3 soundbeds of my songs. I mostly play the lead lines on the PA700, but also have a Korg M50 that shares certain lead sounds on my songs. I have 24 solo albums out and so my set list is diverse with all of the different styles of music I play.

For the price, I have NEVER had a better instrument to cover all of the different styles of music I play. It sounds great playing rock just as easily as it sounds great playing my original orchestral pieces. Even the Double Reed sound works well and the ONLY other instrument that makes those sounds to my liking are my Ensoniq VFX synth from 30 years ago. The violin sounds are pretty good, but still lacks something to my ears that the Ensoniq still gets right. It may be just a matter of taste on that sound, though. I have created a number of custom patches and they all sound good on the PA700. Some are copies of sounds I used on the Ensoniq synths, and while they lack the character of the Ensoniq, the Korg does a really good job of bringing the emulation of the sounds fairly well. The custom lead guitar patches I made on the PA700 are so good that I have stopped using my Fender Strat in my studio. It woks that well for what I need.

For the trio I am putting together, I am using the PA700, an Alesis SR-16 drum machine (to supplement the drum sounds on the PA700) and my old Korg M50 (mainly for lead guitar sounds). It is a potent setup that sounds great and will provide all we need. The trio is myself on keys (and some lead and background vocals), another dedicated female lead singer, and another female lead/background singer who also plays a Korg M50 (I sold my extra M50 to her a couple of years ago). While the guitars on the PA700 are better than on the M50, I have used the PA700 guitar sounds (like bends and such) as a template to make more believable guitar leads on the M50. I will say that the effects section on the M50 is a bit more deep than on the PA700 for individual sounds (5 insert EFX, 2 main EFX and a total effect), but I have never really run into problems on the PA700 when putting full scores together with leads over the top.

If you need vocal harmony stuff, then the PA1000 is also a good choice. It has everything the PA700 has but features more memory, sounds, and styles over the PA700. It also has a tiltable touch screen and the tc helicon harmony stuff built in.

The PA4X is the top of the line, so it has everything you would want. The price of entry may be a little steep and may be more than what you need for what you are doing.

I have never really had a polyphony issue on the PA700 either. A lot of my original music features dense orchestral sections and I never run out of notes. On MIDI sequences that are 10 tracks or more of music, I can still confidently play a lead sound over the top and not run out of notes.

I hope that this helps a bit :)

Grace,
Harry
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Biggles
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Post by Biggles »

Yes it is subjective but I find that Korg sounds are superior to Yamaha which does have better piano sounds. Strings on a Yamaha to me sound harsh and syrained play some reviews and you will hear what I mean.

Korg comes set up in s neutral basis, activate Eq and any Korg will take a leap up in sound quality.

In keyboard Recording then a Korg will beat a Yamaha.

The Genos is a capable keyboard but wow it is expensive, you can buy a Korg PA4X and a Korg Kross 2 for the same price as a Genos.
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bormo
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Post by bormo »

Thank you everybody for the answers!

The idea to check pa700/pa1000 is great, I hope it is in stock here in Vancouver.

I am not sure regarding Genos, since 80% of styles are the same as my PSR S950 has. And the price..... 8-(

And we do not use organs/choirs etc, we're very contemporary :)

Here is an example:

https://www.facebook.com/10001886709163 ... 954615735/

Korg sound is #1 for me now, but the form factor of Ketron is very nice. I can work with Ketron and Logic Pro X with no keyboard at all, means I can create backing tracks even in my trailer :)

And rhythm group @ Ketron is not so bad...

Is anybody ketroning here? :)
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Musicwithharry
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Post by Musicwithharry »

Biggles wrote:Yes it is subjective but I find that Korg sounds are superior to Yamaha which does have better piano sounds. Strings on a Yamaha to me sound harsh and syrained play some reviews and you will hear what I mean.

Korg comes set up in s neutral basis, activate Eq and any Korg will take a leap up in sound quality.

In keyboard Recording then a Korg will beat a Yamaha.

The Genos is a capable keyboard but wow it is expensive, you can buy a Korg PA4X and a Korg Kross 2 for the same price as a Genos.
There is a lot of truth in what you said...

The main piano sound on my Korg PA700 is a Yamaha C5 Grand :)

The Korg will sound dull out of the box but with EQ and EFX adjustments to individual sounds, the keyboard comes to life. I remember posting about this in length when I first got the PA700.

Grace,
Harry
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC
gwcuk
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Post by gwcuk »

bormo. myself stay clear of Facebook so like many others can't view your link.
bormo
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Post by bormo »

gwcuk wrote:bormo. myself stay clear of Facebook so like many others can't view your link.
Agree, we have this profile just to support our Church's page.

Uploaded to Vimeo

https://vimeo.com/473913216/b781e65771
Korghelper
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Post by Korghelper »

As an alternative suggestion...

Since you don’t use the keyboard live at all, and only use it for making audio tracks in the studio, why not keep using the keyboard you have (the style selection for praise and worship is far larger for Yamaha than any other brand) but invest in some good orchestral VSTi’s and drum, bass and guitar libraries, and simply record the arranger as MIDI and then substitute FAR better sounds than you’ll get from any arranger at any price?

US$2200 goes a LONG way when buying VSTi’s if you are considering a PA1000..!
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keyboard
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Post by keyboard »

Korghelper wrote:As an alternative suggestion...

Since you don’t use the keyboard live at all, and only use it for making audio tracks in the studio, why not keep using the keyboard you have (the style selection for praise and worship is far larger for Yamaha than any other brand) but invest in some good orchestral VSTi’s and drum, bass and guitar libraries, and simply record the arranger as MIDI and then substitute FAR better sounds than you’ll get from any arranger at any price?

US$2200 goes a LONG way when buying VSTi’s if you are considering a PA1000..!
Very well said.... The logic is there !
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Post by tassiespirit »

Korghelper wrote:As an alternative suggestion...

Since you don’t use the keyboard live at all, and only use it for making audio tracks in the studio, why not keep using the keyboard you have (the style selection for praise and worship is far larger for Yamaha than any other brand) but invest in some good orchestral VSTi’s and drum, bass and guitar libraries, and simply record the arranger as MIDI and then substitute FAR better sounds than you’ll get from any arranger at any price?

US$2200 goes a LONG way when buying VSTi’s if you are considering a PA1000..!
The Pa700/Pa1000/PA4X make great Intros, ending outtros etc. and you can transpose and setup your midis into styles using the " style bot" as well - to key it to your songs and the style of worship songs you want to play.

The main thing is to get the band to work together and get the congregation into worship straight away and not be trying to figure out what song or what the band is doing. If you can get the beat right and the style right you half way there then the band can lock in.

Hope you find what you need , pluys what you want as well!


Allan
Don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!
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