From pa3x to pa4x

eli125 · Post by **eli125** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:19 am

Loading data from Pa-Series instruments
You can load most data from KORG Pa-Series instruments. The following
table shows what you can load from the other instruments. Please remember
to save the converted data after loading.
Load from Loaded data
Pa3X You can load most data as if they were Pa4X data. There are however a
few exceptions to be considered:
• Performances and STSs are converted to Keyboard Sets.
• Due to the different order in memory, Factory Styles must be manually
reassigned to SongBook Entries by using the KORG SongBook Editor
software.
• Favorite Style banks over #10 are missing and are not loaded. Since
Pa4X banks are larger, load the individual Styles into the additional locations
of the other banks.
• Performance banks over #11 are missing and are not loaded. Since
Pa4X Keyboard Set banks are larger, load the individual Performances
into the additional locations of the other banks.
• Since the number of Insert and Master FX is different, the effects configuration
can be different.
• Voice Processor Presets with the MP3 Audio harmony type are reset.
• Compressed User Samples exceeding about 200 MB (400 MB uncompressed
or ‘linear’) are not loaded.
• Global settings are not loaded.
Pa3XLe, Pa900,
Pa600, Pa300,
HAVIAN 30
You can load most data as if they were Pa4X data. There are however a
few exceptions to be considered:
• Performances and STSs are converted to Keyboard Sets.
• Due to the different order in memory, Factory Styles must be manually
reassigned to SongBook Entries by using the KORG SongBook Editor
software.
• Favorite Style banks over #10 are missing and are not loaded. Since
Pa4X banks are larger, load the individual Styles into the additional locations
of the other banks.
• When available, Voice Processor Presets with the MP3 Audio harmony
type are reset.
• Global settings are not loaded.

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:36 am

It's hard to believe that Korg hasn't got a simple program to take the old style addresses and map it to the new ones, and spit out a new, corrected file.

Simple DB stuff here, guys.

Songbook Editor should have a macro that takes old addresses and automatically changes them to new addresses. Did it not occur to them that this was going to be a major thing for all Songbook users going from PA3X to 4X?

Same with Performance Banks, etc., etc..

Honestly, Korg, why isn't all this stuff ready to go..? Working musicians ain't got time to hand reassign thousands and thousands of entries. This software should have been ready from Day1.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:43 am

Dikikeys wrote:It's hard to believe that Korg hasn't got a simple program to take the old style addresses and map it to the new ones, and spit out a new, corrected file.

Simple DB stuff here, guys.

Songbook Editor should have a macro that takes old addresses and automatically changes them to new addresses. Did it not occur to them that this was going to be a major thing for all Songbook users going from PA3X to 4X?

Same with Performance Banks, etc., etc..

Honestly, Korg, why isn't all this stuff ready to go..? Working musicians ain't got time to hand reassign thousands and thousands of entries. This software should have been ready from Day1.

Seems quite obvious to me, they changed the core to much and so lost backward compatibillity, which can be a huge point for performing artists..

I dont think this can be easilly overcome with a simple program, as some options of the PA3x got lost in the transformation to PA4x.

Not to boast Yamaha, but they still seem on par when it comes to backward compatibillity. In Roland instruments however its nearly non excistant.

Not saying its a good or bad thing, because backward compatibillity can be a drain and minimalise chances for true innovations..

Asena · Post by **Asena** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:55 am

I hope you can remember the Guy who made KORG PA MANAGER !

We all, Including the KORG will need some help there.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:42 am

I hope you can remember the Guy who made KORG PA MANAGER !
We all, Including the KORG will need some help there.

???

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:59 pm

Bachus wrote: Seems quite obvious to me, they changed the core to much and so lost backward compatibillity, which can be a huge point for performing artists..

I dont think this can be easilly overcome with a simple program, as some options of the PA3x got lost in the transformation to PA4x.

Not to boast Yamaha, but they still seem on par when it comes to backward compatibillity. In Roland instruments however its nearly non excistant.

Not saying its a good or bad thing, because backward compatibillity can be a drain and minimalise chances for true innovations..

But all I'm talking about here is simple database stuff, when it comes to the Songbook....

Something USED to be in Slot A, B and C...

Now it needs to be in Slot X, Y and Z....

Simple. You write a program that takes the old Songbook entry, looks where the data is, then automatically puts it in a Songbook entry where the new data will be. What's so hard about that?

No, you are going to have issues if it comes to IFX/MFX's reorganized (although a fair bit of that can probably be automated), etc., but the Songbook is primarily just a database.

I simply feel it is bad that Korg are going to force some third party to come up with a solution (which they will) when, as soon as the new data structure was decided upon in R&D, they should have started work on the tools to allow data migration between the old Songbook and the new...

After all, you'll sell a WHOLE bunch more of a product if it doesn't make the owner do a boatload of work to move from his old arranger to the new one.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:09 am

Concept sure is simple.
The problem could be that most of us who do more than just play a "factory-loaded" keyboard would not benefit much from this.
Tailored styles, relocated styles, mountains of FAVORITEs styles etc… let alone the SOUNDs.

This would work great from a "factory-PA3X" to a "factory-PA4X". So, if in the first place we were made aware of this "conversion-software" then we could manage our tailoring on style and sound locations accordingly.
Can't see this being a very positive investment/marketing boost for Korg though - might be great for some owners.

Fransman · Post by **Fransman** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:42 pm

karmathanever wrote: This would work great from a "factory-PA3X" to a "factory-PA4X".

No, this SHOULD work great from a factory PA3X to a factory PA4X; it's a bloody shame it is NOT compatible.
And I don't mean fooling around with a software tool on my PC; it should be automatically processed, at least the songbook with all of the songbook entries based on factory styles!!

I've gone through the process from PA800 to PA3X and I can assure you: it's NOT a simple and easy thing to do. (although PAolo (huhhuh) is trying to make you think otherwise).
You have to remember (or have written down with ALL of your songs, which gladly I did in most cases) which style you used.
And then still a lot of tweaking is needed in some (I think most) cases.

That's not PROFESSIONAL at all!! And not even acceptable for an amateur like me.

No, PA3X will stay in my home for many, many years to come, unless Korg comes with a 2015-ish solution...

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:48 pm

It's not even a case of factory content...

If you have a program look at the old Songbook, note the NAME of any non-ROM styles, give it a unique ID, then look for that style in the new data structure, and reconnect the link, it's job done...

Unless you have a variety of different styles all with the same exact name (perhaps sitting in different folders), this is a no-brainer. If you do have that (is it even possible in a Korg?), you get the program to rename the styles (style1, style2 etc.) then create a new Songbook that uses those new names. It's all macros, nothing too Deep Blue about it.

You just watch... pretty soon, someone will make this program to do EXACTLY all this. The problem is, it should have been Korg, and it should have already been done!

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:16 pm

karmathanever wrote:
I hope you can remember the Guy who made KORG PA MANAGER !
We all, Including the KORG will need some help there.
???

I think we would need some kind of key to decrypt the content of this post. Asena is the only one who has that special key.

mrniceneasy · Post by **mrniceneasy** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:20 pm

Hi Sam. I think he was referring to Babosh who was developing such software. He hit a brick wall with Korg..

Post was HERE

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:34 pm

mrniceneasy wrote:Hi Sam. I think he was referring to Babosh who was developing such software. He hit a brick wall with Korg..

Post was HERE

Hi Keith,
I don't think Babosh and the guy who developed Korg PA Manager are the same people. Babosh dropped his project and disappeared but later on Korg PA manager was developed by a different person.

Nemik · Post by **Nemik** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Many developers is willing to write software for editing korg styles, but Korg keeping secret, won't give anybody decryption key.

I personally know programers who got all, except access to data.
So at this point we have to hope software come one day from korg .

Fransman · Post by **Fransman** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:31 pm

Dikikeys wrote:It's not even a case of factory content...

If you have a program look at the old Songbook, note the NAME of any non-ROM styles, give it a unique ID, then look for that style in the new data structure, and reconnect the link, it's job done...

Unless you have a variety of different styles all with the same exact name (perhaps sitting in different folders), this is a no-brainer. If you do have that (is it even possible in a Korg?), you get the program to rename the styles (style1, style2 etc.) then create a new Songbook that uses those new names. It's all macros, nothing too Deep Blue about it.

You just watch... pretty soon, someone will make this program to do EXACTLY all this. The problem is, it should have been Korg, and it should have already been done!

100% agree & very well put: nothing Deep Blue about it.
Modern technology must HELP instead of getting in the way!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:02 am

Nemik wrote:Many developers is willing to write software for editing korg styles, but Korg keeping secret, won't give anybody decryption key.
I personally know programers who got all, except access to data.
So at this point we have to hope software come one day from korg .

Yes - you can't blame a manufacturer for protecting their products' internal designs.
However this seems like it hurts or restricts us at times. To be fair, Korg need to establish profitability when considering any additional products (s/w etc.).
OK - some here often say the software development and OS changes are simple - well that is not necessarily true unless they already know the internals, design, and testing schedules of the PA product in question.
What might seem like a simple change can often be quite the reverse.
Any changes or new S/W pushed out to us (the public) would require extensive internal acceptance testing - this is a complex product - it's music!! The combinations/permutations in the operation of any Korg keyboard go into the billions - testing would be and is a nightmare - that's why we end up with so-called "bugs" - often impossible to find until the public get hold of the products.
Changes are RARELY simple for an IT-related manufacturer.
Korg could perhaps outsource under strict NDAs and get us some great add-on software and even optional OS add-ons but that will end up being at our cost (which would be fine with me) but would still have to be justified in terms of R&D costs vs sales probabilities.
It's regular business - it's life

(MIDI Implementation Manual would be good - like in the i-series days)