EC5 WORK ROUND

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:11 am

I group 2 bt500s-6 airturns with Widibud pro plugged into the usb port. Have: variation 2,3,4…Keyboard sets 1-4, ending 1 and 3. Break. Spare button.
Each Airturn has 2 analog ports for expression, wah etc.
No wires, just set on floor and power up.
The assignable ports are open as well as midi ports on pa5x. I use one assignable for harmony on/off. Been using this for years with pa1000, works flawlessly. Mount on a guitar pedal board frame if you want.
I even used this configuration with PA3x without my ec5 before that. What else do we need? This was not a surprise on pa5x, since no ec5 was already on pa1000.

Not doubting any of that but how do you configure this for functions like "VAR-up, VAR-down"??? - Korg have never given us MIDI details for these (there are more). That is why this does not work as a replacement for the EC5. Just answer that one question and I'll be a lot happier....

if my FCB1010 could do this then I wouldn't care about EC5 any more - but it doesn't.

Keymn · Post by **Keymn** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:08 am

karmathanever wrote:
I group 2 bt500s-6 airturns with Widibud pro plugged into the usb port. Have: variation 2,3,4…Keyboard sets 1-4, ending 1 and 3. Break. Spare button.
Each Airturn has 2 analog ports for expression, wah etc.
No wires, just set on floor and power up.
The assignable ports are open as well as midi ports on pa5x. I use one assignable for harmony on/off. Been using this for years with pa1000, works flawlessly. Mount on a guitar pedal board frame if you want.
I even used this configuration with PA3x without my ec5 before that. What else do we need? This was not a surprise on pa5x, since no ec5 was already on pa1000.
Not doubting any of that but how do you configure this for functions like "VAR-up, VAR-down"??? - Korg have never given us MIDI details for these (there are more). That is why this does not work as a replacement for the EC5. Just answer that one question and I'll be a lot happier.... if my FCB1010 could do this then I wouldn't care about EC5 any more - but it doesn't.

I have been without ec5 ever since the Airturn came out with midi pedals. Simple program of the pedal using control on channel 15, Korg midi in. Used same AIRTURN’S on PA3x too. Same program.
Dealt with no variation up/down ever since I purchased pa1000, just have var 2,3,4 and have a spare if I need var 1. The two Airturns give 12 buttons and just set on floor, power up and it pairs to the WidiBud pro in Korg usb port. No wires to plug in.
The pa5x has been an awesome upgrade for me and despite some of the features missing, it’s sounds are amazing…I play it day and night…

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:39 am

Keymn wrote:Dealt with no variation up/down ever since I purchased pa1000, just have var 2,3,4 and have a spare if I need var 1

Yes indeed - I do not want to commit 4 pedals and the inconvenience when Var-up and Var-down is available.
So, since my i3 over 22 years ago, I've been perfectly happy with my EC5 set-up. If Korg assisted in any way with MIDI implementation, then all would be OK.

EC5 has been a critical and great tool for all my playing.... a "work-around" is a cop-out and unacceptable for me.

Keymn · Post by **Keymn** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:49 pm

karmathanever wrote:
Keymn wrote:Dealt with no variation up/down ever since I purchased pa1000, just have var 2,3,4 and have a spare if I need var 1
Yes indeed - I do not want to commit 4 pedals and the inconvenience when Var-up and Var-down is available.
So, since my i3 over 22 years ago, I've been perfectly happy with my EC5 set-up. If Korg assisted in any way with MIDI implementation, then all would be OK.

EC5 has been a critical and great tool for all my playing.... a "work-around" is a cop-out and unacceptable for me.

In my field of gigging, my pa1000 or pa5x is off to the side. As I perform accordion gig. Pedal is necessary. The Two AIRTURN’S Velcro’s to a piece of Lexan is what I use. Never touch the keyboard controls during a performance. The two AIRTURN’S combined very compact and convenient. The Behringer is not for me as I need to connect wireless and it is too big. Do not worry, the Bluetooth pedal industry is growing fast and more programmability will be available. If a ec5 replacement will be a future upgrade, definitely will be a midi control process.
The variation up/down is an easy process with a ipad I am experimenting with. But you need to receive the first variation programmed on a songbook number. So still in the works as I am not an engineer. But have some midi experience. Keep you posted…

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:06 am

Keymn wrote:If a ec5 replacement will be a future upgrade, definitely will be a midi control process

I'm sure it will - just need some MIDI implementation from Korg - I hold little hope....

D575 · Post by **D575** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:26 am

karmathanever wrote:
Keymn wrote:If a ec5 replacement will be a future upgrade, definitely will be a midi control process
I'm sure it will - just need some MIDI implementation from Korg - I hold little hope....

I totally agree with you Pete, with are present missing previous EC5 functionality from PA4X, etc...

I wonder if this > https://www.electra.one/ might provide the missing MIDI information many of us require?

Clearly Korg have no interest in helping/providing this information considering the possibility of reintroducing a New usb-EC5 at some point in the distant future, where I am sure they would rarther make us wait for that level of missing foot control we require, and in-return would mean Korg not missing out on any opportunity making more money from us...

If this is the plan, then providing MIDI implementation charts we need would potentially mean korg missing out creating more revenue while we the customer are still waiting with every passing month (unfortunately) while korg think about pulling there fingers out (my conclusion considering the appalling communication in way of a road map) and finish PA5X in a time of there own choosing... all "subject to change," of course...

Keymn · Post by **Keymn** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 1:42 pm

As I performed last night with my two AIRTURN’S, I never touched one control on the Korg. All the variations, break, endings, harmony available at my foot step. Korg has been good to me every-time I asked for support.

I did not go from a PA3x to Pa4x since it was not a big change until pa5x. Despite all the negativity, I am very happy with pa5x.
Check out
https://www.cme-pro.com/
This is advanced midi wireless control that I use with my Roland accordion and pedal. The advancement of Bluetooth LE has made this all possible.
Here is a sample using my pedals.
https://youtu.be/0kITBM4F9_A

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 4:11 am

Yep - looks good but still we have no alternative to EC5 functionality

D575 · Post by **D575** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:43 am

Somewhere at the beginning of PA5X life, in one of the early threads Sharp did try to assist with some Android software to sniff out MIDI signals coming from the USB ports which was unsuccessful (i did try) my theory with "Elacta One" (if I have understood correctly?) would be too repeat the process Shap had in mind with more options to use a traditional MIDI port and again repeat the process with USB...

Although I am keen to purchase this Advanced MIDI controller I am also reluctant to spend more money considering my above thoughts (previously in this thread) if I only then ever use the "Electra One" as diagnostic tool for PA5X which would work out to be a expensive experiment what ever the out come...

So, I will need to give this some more thought to see if "Electra One" could be used for other duties in my rig to make the purchase price worthwhile...

To be continued..........

Keymn · Post by **Keymn** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 6:12 am

If you want to sniff out midi information, a good app is called
“Pocket Midi”
I have it on my iPad and PC. A great way to monitor midi messages.

Another app is “midi designer Pro 2” I created a program that replaces the Roland fc300 and Behringer pedals. The Airturn connects and you can midi mapp through this app to a widibud pro on Korg. The sky is the limit, with time and ingenuity you can almost make any type of control…but hope to hear more positive on the eliminated EC5, as it will never be back. Together in this forum, we could make it happen. But need some midi expertise and support…

The iPad and iPhone are powerful tools. The iPhone even has an accelerometer which when mounted to a pedal frame can create expression. I can share this if interested.
I am a believer in wireless Bluetooth low energy midi. It has been successful since the development of Bluetooth 5. I was hoping this would have been included built in on pa5x, even Pa4x should have had it.
All for now, I am going to close on this thread and perhaps create a new one as development continues on wireless midi products. I am satisfied with what I have, but some seem to want more…!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 7:42 am

I have used a few MIDI sniffers in the past. When these EC5/Assignable-switch functions are executed there is no MIDI output for them.
Taking just "var-up" as an example (there are other functions too - those NOT listed in the MIDI tables).
It seems that the EC5 and assignable switches are handled by the OS and not simply by MIDI signals. Where Korg has given us MIDI values for things like FILLs and specific VARs etc then these work from external devices/sequencers etc...

It is just annoying for me. I would still go and buy a PA5x and live with that MIDI limitation but at the moment, the PA5x really doesn't work. With its problems right now, I could not perform or record in the manner I am used to.

D575 · Post by **D575** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:23 am

karmathanever wrote:I have used a few MIDI sniffers in the past. When these EC5/Assignable-switch functions are executed there is no MIDI output for them.
Taking just "var-up" as an example (there are other functions too - those NOT listed in the MIDI tables).
It seems that the EC5 and assignable switches are handled by the OS and not simply by MIDI signals. Where Korg has given us MIDI values for things like FILLs and specific VARs etc then these work from external devices/sequencers etc...

It is just annoying for me. I would still go and buy a PA5x and live with that MIDI limitation but at the moment, the PA5x really doesn't work. With its problems right now, I could not perform or record in the manner I am used to.

Agreed and also (((( Bloody Annoying ))))

Keymn · Post by **Keymn** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:09 pm

D575 wrote:
karmathanever wrote:I have used a few MIDI sniffers in the past. When these EC5/Assignable-switch functions are executed there is no MIDI output for them.
Taking just "var-up" as an example (there are other functions too - those NOT listed in the MIDI tables).
It seems that the EC5 and assignable switches are handled by the OS and not simply by MIDI signals. Where Korg has given us MIDI values for things like FILLs and specific VARs etc then these work from external devices/sequencers etc...

It is just annoying for me. I would still go and buy a PA5x and live with that MIDI limitation but at the moment, the PA5x really doesn't work. With its problems right now, I could not perform or record in the manner I am used to.

Agreed and also (((( Bloody Annoying ))))

rikkisbears · Post by **rikkisbears** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:05 am

Hi Pete, would you be mainly missing the ability of vari up and vari down on the PA5x ie by not having ec5 pedal or other functions as well.
I assume you are aware PA5x has 2 assignable pedal inputs plus the 3rd is for damper. Basically I have assignable 1 to vari up , assignable 2 to vari down, and 3 is the damper.

That’s why I’m trying to work out if I really need a midi pedal or the cable to to connect the EC5.

Keymn’s widi setup does sound intriguing.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:57 pm

Hi Rikki

Var-up and Var-down are two of the functions that I use on my EC5, others are rotary fast/slow and bass mute - my assignment pedal is for my singer to control harmonies

Probably could all be done via MIDI but we have no MIDI implementation details from Korg.
PA5X manual (same as PA4x) shows the very limited MIDI functions relating to STYLE elements and player controls.

Can do everything with a pedal or switch or EC5 but not MIDI pedal

I don't think Korg will ever care about this and so, when the PA5x is fixed enough for me to be able to use it, then I'll probably get one and change my pedal habits

Take care

Pete