?’s about using Kronos as a hub live

[Artcutech]

Im helping somebody out with a live set up who uses a kronos and had a couple questions on what would be the best direction in achieving the best sound

MBP will be running into Kronos over usb and playing the instrumental versions of the songs being triggered in session mode in Ableton, sound card in/out set to the Kronos on the MBP, going to be using a shure KSM8 dynamic mic as well as an electric acoustic guitar. I’m not sure what the specifics are at the moment as what everything will be run into, will know soon but trying to get a jump start and wanted to know if it’s a better idea to run the mic and guitar separately into whatever everything going into if possible, I think it might be a mixing board but it might not. So the jist of my question would be does running everything into the kronos, mic guitar, audio from Ableton and then left and right out into the main system(don’t know what it is yet) give a kind of chokey or muffled sound? Should I be routing the mic and guitar out of the assignable outputs(haven’t looked into this in depth but I think the Kronos has the option of assigning inputs to a couple outputs)as opposed to everything out of the main? Or, if it is possible to run everything separately into their own inputs into the main system, this would be the ideal method? just use the Kronos for the tracks coming from the MBP and whatever else with local control for use of Kronos internal sound during set and left and right main out to the source, and the mic and guitar going into the source separately?

I really like the sound the Kronos gives off and not sure if a standard mixing board(depending if there’s an engineer treating and dressing up the inputs) or whatever being used would give a stale/dry sound to the mic and guitar as whenever we hook everything into the Kronos stuff sounds really warm and nice

So basically is it a safe bet to run everything into the kronos and left and right outputs into the main system and achieve a great sound? Or everything in and out of their own assignable outs on the Kronos? Like guitar and mic out of their own assignable out and Ableton Kronos out of the main l/r and everything into the source system from there? ofcourse the mic and guitar will be eq’d on the inputs eq on the Kronos if that’s what we end up doing.

I’m sure my post is full of variables and it all depends what we’re runnig into, will find out more shortly and any advice is greatly appreciated

[CharlesFerraro]

wanted to know if it’s a better idea to run the mic and guitar separately into whatever everything going into if possible

I wondered the same thing when I first started teaching myself music production a decade ago. The answer is no, there's no difference. All signals are summed to a stereo downmix anyway ie. the front of house.

does running everything into the kronos, mic guitar, audio from Ableton and then left and right out into the main system(don’t know what it is yet) give a kind of chokey or muffled sound?

Nope, just make sure you're not clipping at the input or output.

Should I be routing the mic and guitar out of the assignable outputs as opposed to everything out of the main?

Not unless you plan on doing some processing to those signals after they leave the Kronos. But you already mentioned that you'll be doing any processing before those lines are fed to the Kronos.

(haven’t looked into this in depth but I think the Kronos has the option of assigning inputs to a couple outputs)

Yes this is possible. But not necessary for what you're trying to achieve.

Or, if it is possible to run everything separately into their own inputs into the main system, this would be the ideal method? just use the Kronos for the tracks coming from the MBP and whatever else with local control for use of Kronos internal sound during set and left and right main out to the source, and the mic and guitar going into the source separately?

This is redundant. Again the answer is no. All signals are always summed. There is no practical reasoning for routing channels individually unless you're trying to apply some sort of specific processing to that line. Such as being able to control volume, panning, or adding delay. Things the Kronos can do to the inputs anyway. If you're going to use a DI box you can do so before going into the Kronos input since I believe those are balanced jacks.
There are two things to note concerning saturation and noise. Let's say you're using an analog desk. Routing channels to the individual outputs to be summed by the desk would pretty much just add unnecessary noise. Some people could argue that the analog components will color the sound and that coloration would be different if you're summing individual instruments vs the whole mix. Think per voice vs post timbre distortion. I don't think that coloration will be worth it given the potential trade-off for noise. And the effect would be extremely negligible anyway. That kind of gentle saturation per channel makes much more of a difference on a mix with 100 tracks, not two stereo pairs. I'm pretty sure this is a bit too technical of an explanation for what you're asking though.

So basically is it a safe bet to run everything into the kronos and left and right outputs into the main system and achieve a great sound?

YES

Or everything in and out of their own assignable outs on the Kronos? Like guitar and mic out of their own assignable out and Ableton Kronos out of the main l/r and everything into the source system from there?

NO

[Artcutech]

Wow Charles, thank you so much!

Sorry for being redundant, I guess my whole mix-down mindset(I know this doesn’t make sense haha) kind of took over as having everything on its own track and treating it individually, but everything would still would be treated individually just summed down to a stereo mix earlier, my lack of experience in setting up stuff live made me wonder if there was some benefit to having all inputs individual at the last step but thanks for clearing that up, it really means a lot to me, the person I’m helping and myself really like the sound the Kronos gives off + effects when runnig through the inputs, and running everything through it and using the L/R main out makes things extremely simple

[CharlesFerraro]

You know... there is one scenario where routing the guitar and mic direct could be better. And that is if you're going into a desk with ridiculously clean preamps. I've noticed that RME preamps are friggin' crystal clear where the noise floor on those systems is lower than the usual. They boast about a greater dynamic range as a selling point and boy does it show. The Fireface 800 definitely had the cleanest inputs of any piece of audio gear I've ever used. So much so that I kindof regret selling it. But downsizing to an Apollo Twin USB has been really nice and is a lot more convenient for my needs these days.

All that said pretty much everyone else has the same quality/dynamic range for their inputs. You only really need that kind of extreme quality if you're recording like... whispering from across the room or something lol. And even then the rest of your signal chain has to be immaculate as well as the space being acoustically treated.

Back to your point though, yeah you're totally fine with having the Kronos do the work. In fact I think it's really cool that you'll be maximizing the keyboard's utility like that.

[Artcutech]

That kind of gentle saturation per channel makes much more of a difference on a mix with 100 tracks, not two stereo pairs. I'm pretty sure this is a bit too technical of an explanation for what you're asking though.

Btw just wanted to say that type of explanation not to technical at all I mix huge arrangements and make sure every single channel/track has a analog emulation channel strip and at least two saturation plug-ins, tape and single band, my whole confusion just kind of was in a live sound setting and thanks for clearing things up

[CharlesFerraro]

That kind of gentle saturation per channel makes much more of a difference on a mix with 100 tracks, not two stereo pairs. I'm pretty sure this is a bit too technical of an explanation for what you're asking though.

Btw just wanted to say that type of explanation not to technical at all I mix huge arrangements and make sure every single channel/track has a analog emulation channel strip and at least two saturation plug-ins, tape and single band, my whole confusion just kind of was in a live sound setting and thanks for clearing things up

+1 for analog emulation. All the benefits, none of the noise! Some of the Waves consoles will actually let you add the noise too though. And in fact the Kronos' own MS-20EX engine emulates analog noise as well.

[Artcutech]

You know... there is one scenario where routing the guitar and mic direct could be better. And that is if you're going into a desk with ridiculously clean preamps. I've noticed that RME preamps are friggin' crystal clear where the noise floor on those systems is lower than the usual. They boast about a greater dynamic range as a selling point and boy does it show. The Fireface 800 definitely had the cleanest inputs of any piece of audio gear I've ever used. So much so that I kindof regret selling it. But downsizing to an Apollo Twin USB has been really nice and is a lot more convenient for my needs these days.

All that said pretty much everyone else has the same quality/dynamic range for their inputs. You only really need that kind of extreme quality if you're recording like... whispering from across the room or something lol. And even then the rest of your signal chain has to be immaculate as well as the space being acoustically treated.

Back to your point though, yeah you're totally fine with having the Kronos do the work. In fact I think it's really cool that you'll be maximizing the keyboard's utility like that.

Sorry didn’t see this post until I made my last one, the person definitely got the Kronos in hopes of maximizing it and to use as a hub live as well as all its other great features, I just sometimes get OCD tendencies and over think things I don’t know so much about, like maximizing sound in a multiple instrument live set which I have 0 experience or knowledge in

But this show is not so critical and even if it was you sure put my mind at ease as everything the way we have it sounds amazing


Lol at the +1 for analog emulation, I bet hundreds of enthusiasts would say the noise is the best part, part of the warmth haha

I also own an Apollo and 3 satellites and it has been a game changer, and I do all the mix-downs for this person at my spot