Kapro Epic, Premium, Dream, Private, Monumental - WTF :)

[xmortenx]

Trying to find a decent string/orchestra library after spending a 3 weeks learning the Kronos universe

After visiting the Korg shop I could not stop to laughing.

It´s like a perfect mini Kronos universe.

Like it´s hardware counterpart it does not give the new user any chance to get a handle on anything without investing a heavy dose of concentration.

From youtube videos it looks like the crazy priced Kapro is the way to go.

But what to choose ???

If I choose to trust the naming of the libraries then "Monumental Dream Epic Private Composer" should trump "Epic Private composer" since the later is not Monumental, Dreamy or even Private. And where is the Public version when there is a private version ??

I know I can download and listen but perhaps anyone could that has invested a lot of time and energy in figuring out the Kapro lineup could point me in the right direction before I start downloading half the samples in the shop

[xmortenx]

But in all fairness to Kapro

Just downloaded a demo and Holy F.... thees patches are fun to play. This trumps DAW land by mile for playability and fun.

[exsequor699]

Each collection has a dedicated documentation with all the detailed info one would need... Also there are lots of video and audio demos in Youtube and KApro's Facebook page. The final test would be, installing demos and judge by yourself what would be the best for your personal use. You can't go wrong with any of the KApro libraries.

[studio460]

I'm with you, dude. I went to the Korg store and I was like WTF? Which one do I get? There's no categorization. No clear hierarchy. I've listened to the YouTube demos and found them incomplete. Lots of staccato chord-playing, but no solo stings. No glissandos. I don't even know if they can do a glissando.

If you want to sell libraries, at least make a decent demo. Yes, Jordan Rudess is an excellent keyboardist, but the demo isn't the best for evaluating the individual sounds. WaveArts' Cinematic Suite is probably going to get my money because his demos are very, very well done. The solo violin and cello demos are clear and audible—because they're solos. And they do a very convincing glissando—the first realistic glissando I've ever heard coming out of a hardware synth. Can KApro's violins do this?

I mean, is KApro EXs Sample Library Bundle Vol. 2 “Symphonic Dreams Complete 4” the "best" KApro library simply because it's the most expensive? Are the other newer libraries any better because they contain newer samples?

I know that I can download the libraries and demo them, and download the PCMs and put those somewhere. Hell, it took me all night just to figure out that the menu button was called, "global." It's not a simple instrument, and since I'm having so much difficulty understanding KApro's product line-up, my money is probably just going to go to WaveArts.

[GregC]

I'm with you, dude. I went to the Korg store and I was like WTF? Which one do I get? There's no categorization. No clear hierarchy. I've listened to the YouTube demos and found them incomplete. Lots of staccato chord-playing, but no solo stings. No glissandos. I don't even know if they can do a glissando.

If you want to sell libraries, at least make a decent demo. Yes, Jordan Rudess is an excellent keyboardist, but the demo isn't the best for evaluating the individual sounds. WaveArts' Cinematic Suite is probably going to get my money because his demos are very, very well done. The solo violin and cello demos are clear and audible—because they're solos. And they do a very convincing glissando—the first realistic glissando I've ever heard coming out of a hardware synth. Can KApro's violins do this?

I mean, is KApro EXs Sample Library Bundle Vol. 2 “Symphonic Dreams Complete 4” the "best" KApro library simply because it's the most expensive? Are the other newer libraries any better because they contain newer samples?

I know that I can download the libraries and demo them, and download the PCMs and put those somewhere. Hell, it took me all night just to figure out that the menu button was called, "global." It's not a simple instrument, and since I'm having so much difficulty understanding KApro's product line-up, my money is probably just going to go to WaveArts.

I am reluctant to toss many benjamins at sample libs because of the Korg transfer process and my take 'take ' on what orchestra and ensembles should sound like.

I also prefer how Antony demonstrates his sample. I am impressed by acoustic instrument realism. He has demonstrated this to me in his least set.

Really thick orchestration ( like 100s of instruments ) might over whelm my material. I suppose I should experiment. I definitely like movie sound tracks.

[studio460]

. . . I also prefer how Antony demonstrates his sample. I am impressed by acoustic instrument realism. He has demonstrated this to me in his least set.

Exactly! I don't know if that's Antony playing in the demos, but he clearly demonstrates excellent playing technique which highlights the strength of his library in a very audibly explicit manner. I've been auditioning KApro YouTube videos for the past four days, ad infinitum, and I cannot really tell what the instruments sound like.

Sure, the full-orchestra pads in the KApro demos with lots of reverb sound great. But small ensemble and solo performances is where you can tell what's being played. The WaveArts demos' small ensembles show how the individual instrument samples work together, yet aren't overwhelmed by the cacophony of a full orchestral arrangement (which can camouflage any nuance or weakness in the combined sample-playback). Also, I noticed in the installation notes that the KApro libabries do use the Kronos' built-in samples. Antony makes it clear that NO Kronos samples are used when using his library.

[xmortenx]

I remember two courses from college back in the day.. One was Usability Analysis where our teacher would flunk anyone who made an app or website where a typical "grandmother" had to pause only for a second to figure out what to do and another was some sales course where price is X and Y are sold units and you find the optimal pricepoint to maximise profit and market positition....

With that in mind an optimistic approach to this could be the conclusion that Korg and Kapro are run by dropout musicians like the rest of us - which is just another thing to love about "The Kronos"



Ps. Downloaded the 3 Premium Kapro Libraries that all are "The Epic Holywood Sound" just with af reference to different Exs numbers that say nothing really helpfull about the differences in the Exs´s they contain. Will then spend the rest of the sunday fiddling and scratching my head in "Kronos Style" and hopefully come to some kind of conclusion....

[studio460]

Excellent! Look forward to your thoughts! Thanks for doing the hard work!

[studio460]

I found that KApro has an EXs library for cello for $49 which has recorded portamento phrases in their Revolutionary Dimensional Cello EXs 24, where, " . . . for the first time on a hardware workstation, portamento phrases were recorded for all intervals starting with a minor second and ending with an octave, both in upward and downward direction." Portamento is controlled with the Kronos' joystick. It's a "solo cello with a playing range of C2-D5." It's the only library among their offerings where portamento articulation (but not glissando) is mentioned.

[xmortenx]

Ok: Here we go

Kapro Epic Composer Private Collection:
Exs: 260,261,261,263

This is mostly a greatest hits mix of different patches from other libraries especially exs 131-134: Way better strings than stock Kronos but mostly ensemble patches and also a weird mixture off organ and synth sounds mixed in a "Kronos way" that does not make sense. Why all the synth patches in a string library ??

Kapro Epic Composer Animated Orchestra:
Exs: 223,224,225,226

Ensemble patches, but mostly prerecorded frases. Bum Bum da da DAAAAM.
If you like to press one key and hear an orchestra play a frase then this it it.

Kapro Epic Composer:
Exs: 131,132,133,134

Best collection of usefull string patches, brass and Wood patches. Mostly ensemble patches and variations of a patch like Epic orchestra 1, 2, 3 ,4.

All in all the Kapro Epic Composer with Exs 131, 132, 133, 134 is the most usefull one if you need an overall orchestra library, but not many solo inst and articulations. It´s mostly ensemble play keyboard chord style.

Overall the info (or lack thereof) provided with the libraries borders on the verge to arrogant considering the price tag and the "must have for any Kronos user" brand. The Korg Store and these libraries are a mystery to me.

But the libraries are fun to play (the first and last one)



Ps. Wonder who is in charge of this webshop and also the Kapro marketing ??? It´s like they somehow managed to skip the last 10 years of user driven evolution and commerce on the web ???

[studio460]

Again, thanks for doing the legwork on these! The product descriptions and the many assorted, similarly described libraries are confusing. Could they all just be different assortments of KApro's library bundle Vol. 2 "Symphonic Dreams Complete 4" with some new sample data?

And since they only mention portamento for the, "Revolutionary Dimensional Cello EXs 24" library, I assume there are no other instruments with programmed-portamento effects.

Yes, I'm looking specifically for beautifully programmed solo violins, violas, and cellos, and small-ensembles of the same. Then of course, full-orchestra sounds. And then all the individual instruments that make up a typical 90-piece orchestra: Bells, timpani, tuba, etc., the whole ball of wax.

[AntonySharmman]

which has recorded portamento phrases ... for the first time on a hardware workstation,
portamento phrases were recorded for all intervals starting with a minor second and ending with an octave,
both in upward and downward direction."[/i] Portamento is controlled with the Kronos' joystick.

Kronos do not have at all legato levels detection , just the ordinary Triton series 'portamento' function that is proper
only for analog modeling and just a "joke" for high-end sampled notes of an original instrument , since it has the
parodox method to pitch-shift the initial note to the legato space of next note , that make the samples completely
fake when shifted over 2 semitones !
Therefore the only method that can be applied to Kronos for real legato is to use sampled legato of a string for a
certain space , 2nd up to 8th , but you have to use 7 different Programs for 7 sampled legato since controllers like Y
can handle only one space legato , so if anytime you need a different legato space you have to change to another
Program / Combi , go figure ... wasting of time to do something like this in a workstation !
I already have all legato samples of whole orchestras for many years but I can't use them in the so much outdated
workstations features ... nobody discovered the wheel ... just for the record !
The real Dude is who can make all articulation work under one real time "playable" unique combination ...

[studio460]

Well, however you made your glissandos and portamentos in your demo sure sound great!

[AntonySharmman]

That I'm trying to say is ... for real legato , just forget workstations for the next 5-10 years until they create a descent HD1 engine
that can detect legato spaces like I do with script in VST Kontakt sampler for almost 12 years , and use real legato (and not PEG) samples !